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Thread: Exhaust fumes in a 1965 S type 1965

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    Member Barrie B's Avatar
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    Exhaust fumes in a 1965 S type 1965

    Have had my S type for nearly 30 years and have been intermittently been plagued with occasional fumes. The engine was overhauled a couple of years ago so that eliminated engine fumes, although I found any tiny oil drips on the exhaust doesn't help at all.

    I recently did a 300 mile trip, the fuel already in was Texaco 97 octane (I think) and I refuelled with Shell V Power (high octane) on the way home and for the last 30 miles there was a strong exhaust smell coming into the cab, enough to make our clothes smell.
    I've sealed any entrance to the boot area, including new boot seal, but it seems to be sucking fumes in occasionally.

    Ken Jenkins, Worksop, who knows these engines for 50 years (and overhauled mine) thinks there is a connection between the cheaper fuels with additives and always recommends V Power (which I run in my 2012 XJ) for additive free fuel.

    Can any engineer feel if there is a link between the clean burning of inferior v superior fuels enough for it not to be burnt efficient enough to cause smells?

    Any help/thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

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    Barrie are you sure its an exhaust smell and not the smell of petrol or the smell of the hot engine with a little oil?
    I ask this as if its exhaust unless you have a hole in a manifold or the exhaust pipe any exhaust gas should be going out the back and I doubt if any would be sucked back in through the boot. If its Exhaust coming from a hole in one of the pipes or a joint there are many routes for it to get in to the cab and very dangerous to anyone inhaling it for even a short journey.
    If its a petrol smell then its bound to be a fuel tank leaking. They are very prone to having pinprick rust holes appearing on the leading outside edge due to the position of the tanks in the rear wings with no protection from any debri coming off the back wheels. Very common problem on the S Type!
    If its a hot engine smell with a touch of oil coming in to the cab first find the oil leak and get that fixed then you will possibly find it is the seal behind the airbox which has perished and is allowing air from the engine bay to be sucked into the cab. There are several 50mm rubber grommets under the carpet on the gearbox tunnel which might also have perished and fallen out which you will only find are missing by lifting the carpets up. Also check the condition of the rubber grommets on the bulkhead where the wiring loom and control cables for the heater go through.
    Although not a chemist and only a home taught motor engineer I can think of no reason why one fuel would smell any different than another when burnt in the engine just because it's a different octane. I use high octane fuel in my S Type only because when I rebuilt the engine I put in 9:1 compression pistons and standard unleaded makes the car run on when I switch it off. Very embarrassing when you turn the engine off, take the key out of the ignition, get out of the car and lock the door whilst the engine is still trying to run on and eventually gives a massive Phart before stopping.
    Rob.C.
    1968 Jaguar S Type 3.4 Auto Old English white
    2006 X type SE 2.0d Estate
    1966 Ford Anglia 1760 X flow
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    Member Barrie B's Avatar
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    Hi Cass

    I appreciate your detailed suggestions very much, thank you.
    The exhaust is stainless, but I will get the car on a ramp sometime and check it isn't leaking anywhere.
    I fitted a new fuel tank a few years ago, but will also check the other one.
    When the engine was done it looks as if the heater block was removed from the bulkhead and I can see a new cork seal behind it, although I can also see a one inch gap in the seal. I'll try and remove the unit to inspect (if I dare). I'll also check the numerous grommets.

    The only other thing I didn't mention is that the rubber gear lever seal has once again torn, which I think you'll agree is an apparent source of fume ingress, again I'll renew but would be grateful for anyone to advise where to buy a good gaiter that will last.

    I agree re the burning of petrol, it was just that the severe smell, either engine, exhaust or fuel, seemed to come on as soon as I had refuelled. At least I didn't fill it with 14 gallons of diesel as I did a few years ago, (not knowing that V power applied to diesel as well as petrol) and got a mile down the road before the car came to a sputtering halt. What an expensive exercise !

    I also think that we are so used to engine emissions from modern cars with catalytic converters that these old cars will naturally smell a bit.

    Thanks again for your input.
    Barrie

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    It is a regular occurrence for people to get in my car and comment on the old school smell of leather, wood and petrol even though I have an Ambler interior and the wood is varnished so has no smell but with carburettors, rather than a sealed fuel injection system that you would fine on a modern car, the smell of petrol, oil and hot gases is always there.
    To check for leaks on the exhaust start the car from cold and immediately put your hand over each of the tail pipes. This will emphasise any leaks you might have and you should be able to hear them. If there are no leaks the engine should die or the pressure of the gases coming out will push your hand off the exhaust. Two tips though. Only do this with a cold engine and use a rag over your hand or you will get covered in soot.
    As for the gear change gaiter I would go to SNG Barrett or David Manners. The quality is all going to be the same as there can not be that many people out there making rubber gaiters for a Mk2 or S Type Jaguars but several people buying them from the same source and selling them. EU laws now state that rubber items have to have a certain amount of Bio-degradability in them and so they are no longer made of 100% rubber. Buying rubber bushes these days is a nightmare. None of them last so despite the non originality of them I will be converting to poly bushes next time I have to change mine.
    Rob.C.
    1968 Jaguar S Type 3.4 Auto Old English white
    2006 X type SE 2.0d Estate
    1966 Ford Anglia 1760 X flow
    1993 Yamaha FJ1200
    2012 Old English Sheep Dog White and Grey

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    Member Barrie B's Avatar
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    Thanks again Cass for the suggestions which I'm going to try soonest. I've received the gaiter which seems fairly supple, but as you know the travel of the gear lever from say first to second is quite long and hence the strain and short life of the gaiter. We'll see.
    Thanks again
    Barrie

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    Barrie, I've had this on US spec cars where the carbon canister was full of fuel.
    Although I can see from your picture this probably not the case.
    I'm gonna guess your running rich, A fuel leak or a problem with the exhaust.
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    Senior Member Phil F's Avatar
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    I had a couple of S types and Mk 11 back in the sixties and early seventies. The main cause for fumes in the cab I found was caused by crankcase breather problems. Have a look at the seating of the bonnet along the back edge as any gaps will let breather fumes get sucked into the air intake for the heater. Any breather fumes should be sucked into the air box and crank case should have negative pressure to stop fumes escaping to atmosphere and help prevent oil leaks.Never had actual exhaust fumes in cab if ex system was reasonably sound.
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    Phil has a point and I remember from the Wheeler dealers program that one of the faults on their Mk2 was the crankcase breather grill on the front of the engine was blocked which was stopping the waste gas going into the overflow pot. The S type breather sends the gas into the air filter housing and into the inlet manifold. Could be that the grill is blocked and the dirty crankcase air is leaking into the engine compartment and then making its way in to the passengers compartment. Four 7/16 dome headed nuts on the front of the engine will remove the cover and the grill is behind that.
    Rob.C.
    1968 Jaguar S Type 3.4 Auto Old English white
    2006 X type SE 2.0d Estate
    1966 Ford Anglia 1760 X flow
    1993 Yamaha FJ1200
    2012 Old English Sheep Dog White and Grey

  9. #9
    Senior Member rchiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cass3958 View Post
    Phil has a point and I remember from the Wheeler dealers program that one of the faults on their Mk2 was the crankcase breather grill on the front of the engine was blocked which was stopping the waste gas going into the overflow pot. The S type breather sends the gas into the air filter housing and into the inlet manifold. Could be that the grill is blocked and the dirty crankcase air is leaking into the engine compartment and then making its way in to the passengers compartment. Four 7/16 dome headed nuts on the front of the engine will remove the cover and the grill is behind that.
    I saw that one Cass. They did that to cure the blue smoke coming out of the exhaust but would agree with your thoughts.

    Roger
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  10. #10
    Member Barrie B's Avatar
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    Hi Cass
    I've had a new gaiter fitted and whilst the centre assembly was lifted it was checked for missing seals etc.
    When blocking both exhausts, it did show a small leak which was sealed - we found one of the exhausts hard up to the chassis, which is probably the cause of a drone at certain revs.
    We tightened all visible bolts around the engine and where there was a bit of oil. The crankcase breather was checked recently and found to be ok.
    I've yet to go for a decent run with these things done but it's going to be next Spring I guess before I have chance to do this.
    Recently, the red ignition light came on and I found the Dynamo was not working. I purchase an exchange reconditioned one off the shelf (North Derbyshire) for £125 which doesn't seem that bad. Since the old one was the original (1965) I really can't grumble.
    Thanks again for the interest from all,,I'm crossing my fingers that my next long run will be without my sensitive nosed wife grumbling about fumes.....
    Barrie

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