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Thread: The Changing Political Landscape

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondjag View Post
    Hi Red
    Not so sure about that - after liberation from the Soviet Union the former WP states were looking forward to being free. Democracy at last!!!
    Only ending up finding themselves receiving orders from Brussels/Berlin with US/NATO "security" implementations iinstead of directives from Soviet-Moscow. Only a short time of freedom inbetween. People across Europe are unhappy. We need change - and I think Trump is a 50/50 chance. The only chance. And any chance is better than having no chance. Thank God Hillary went down the drain.
    Simon
    I never knew that was the way they looked at things Simon, so they had nothing tangible from the EU ?
    they must have at least profited from the Open Border Policy because Britain is full of them.
    I agree totally about Clinton, the People wanted change no matter who was delivering it.

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    Well, we ( meaning western capital ) benefit from the "new" eastern EU contries ( former east block ).
    And yes all these eastern European contries receive payments from Brussels. Like LIDL and ALDI and others
    getting subsidies to buy agricultuaral lands to grow potatoes at a price level that local (eastern) farmers can`t
    compete with and are forced to sell their properties. And the EU sends payments for infrastructure projects
    so that LIDL and ALDI can transport these potatoes just in time to our supermarkets. Bon appetit !

    We and/or our politicians keep talking about shared values. What are our shared values ?
    I think if the EU were to live up to it`s own shared values, millions of EU citizens would stay at home and
    build their nations. But under these circumstances I understand every single EU migrant leaving in search for a better life
    elsewhere.
    Long live our economy-shaped democracies at the cost of humanity.

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  4. #93
    Senior Member DevonDavid's Avatar
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    secondjag. Interesting comments, and I agree with most of them. Although I voted "out", I still believe that there will be some very serious repercussions in the short term. Not to get too long and boring, and inevitably being a bit superficial, but ....... at present, Tesco and Morrisons just about compete with Lidl and Aldi because their potatoes are picked and packed by cheap labour working in East Anglia. If we stop all those migrant workers coming into the UK, and pay so-called "British Workers" the living wage, with better conditions, to do the same work with a commensurate rise in the cost of those potatoes, will Tesco lie down and submit. Of course not - they will get their potatoes from the same place as Lidl and Aldi. So - we impose import duties on foreign potatoes to try and redress the balance. So - they impose import duties on our precision machinery and industrial pumps and go to China instead.
    I KNOW that's simplifying things to an absurd degree, but I'm just trying to make the point as you have, that all these different things are interconnected, and you can't be choosy about what you take or refuse when the deals are being done. and whatever decisions are made, there will be winners and losers.
    I think Trump will polarise America - he has little support amongst those he will need most - the opinion formers and opinion makers and huge "popular" support from those in the US who feel disenfranchised and ignored by the Political Elite (ring any bells ??)
    Question is ................ once the Mexican wall isn't built, and various other proposals are watered down to gain support and approval in the House of Representatives and the Senate, and all the jobs don't suddenly return to the "rust belt" - will he have any time, energy or inclination to worry about NATO and "the special relationship" with the UK ?

    My bet is on a "no" for that one !!
    David.
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  5. #94
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    Hello David,

    I've heard the migrant worker response before but, whether migrant or indiginous the minimum wage is the same. What do they do when the seasonal work finishes?

    I don't expect miracles in the 'rust belt' but a part of the causes of the demise of jobs is Mr Obama's environmental restrictions. Mr Trump is going to change that and is starting on their Environmental Protection Agency's heavy handed actions and restrictions. Time will tell, of course, but he has recruited people of like minds such as the new head of the EPA, Scott Pruitt who is an oil and gas man.

    Alec
    2004 2.5 X Type Estate, MK 2 3.8 (Long term restoration), 2.5 P.I. Triumph saloon, 564 Hymer motorhome.

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  7. #95
    Senior Member DevonDavid's Avatar
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    Alec. Yes - the minimum wage is the same but the living wage isn't. There's a difference of £1.35 per hour which - for (say) 100 workers doing a ten hour day is a total difference of £1350.00 per day - on a low cost product like carrots or potatoes, that's significant. Also, many of the migrant workers live in appalling conditions in properties owned by the same gangmasters who run the agencies for which they work. When the seasonal work finishes, many of them return home, or find other seasonal or low-paid work.
    I don't want to go over old ground - we will agree to differ about climate change and so-called "Global Warming". Personally, I don't believe that the answer is in "renewables" and I have very few "green credentials". However, I do believe that we (Europe, North & South America, Australasia and a few others) have no right to ask China and India to stop poisoning the planet if we can't show a bit more enthusiasm on our own part.
    David.
    XK8 Convertible 4.0 - 1997. Aerial switch, boot lid switch, remote key-fob operated hood, & tensioners replaced.

  8. #96
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    Well if Russia does attack the Baltic States don't expect much help from Germany because they have cut the budget for the armed forces so much that most of the helicopters, fighters and transport planes can not get of the ground. Their machine guns are not accurate when hot. Even in the time of the USSR all the plans were to attack on Friday afternoon, when the German soldiers had gone home for the weekend and It is still true.

    The Germans are also unable to get enough people to sign up, so they had a plan to allow foreigners to join.

    I know a few east Germans who were in the volksarmee, who joined the west German army after the reunion. Most of them left in disgust and have said that they thought it was propaganda that they could take over west Germany in 24 hours but after their service they said that it would have taken less time.
    Grumpy Old Git

  9. #97
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    ducmon - I'm sure you are right. I know things are changing slowly, but if I wanted to invade France, I would try and get there between 1200 & 1400 - probably in August.

    I don't think the US has ever done anything if it wasn't in their best interests (and I include their eventual participation in WW2 in that statement). Their priorities have moved from Eastern Europe to Political, Economic and maybe even Military threats from elsewhere.
    Trump is, above all, a pragmatic wheeler dealer, and if forming an uneasy alliance with Russia is in the USA's best interests, that's what he will do and if that means turning his back on what the results may be in Eastern Europe, I don't think he will worry too much.
    But ... leaving aside any moral issues of responsibility or respect for formal treaties and agreements, any further incursion of Russia into the Balkans will result in another mass movement of displaced people towards the West, and I don't think any of us would want that.
    David.
    XK8 Convertible 4.0 - 1997. Aerial switch, boot lid switch, remote key-fob operated hood, & tensioners replaced.

  10. #98
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    In eastern Europe they are getting organised for problems with Russia. Poland has started to recruiting for a 35000 strong paramilitary force since September 2016. this force will then be integrated into the army.
    Due to the history of Poland with the occupation either by Germany or Russia it is a very nervous situation there.
    Grumpy Old Git

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  12. #99
    Senior Member DevonDavid's Avatar
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    Not entirely off topic :

    David.
    XK8 Convertible 4.0 - 1997. Aerial switch, boot lid switch, remote key-fob operated hood, & tensioners replaced.

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  14. #100
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    Well a quick change of Topic and thats the News this morning that Britain will be at the front of the queue for a Trade Deal with the USA, Boris Johnson was apparently given this assurance last night and the USA is keen to do one as soon as Britain can, which obviously can't happen till after the triggering of Article 50. I have no hesitation here in saying that I thought Britains attitude to a Trump Presidency during the Presidential Campaign was at best amateurish, especially against the backdrop of BREXIT, it would have been far better in my opinion to have just adopted the attitude that "its Americas business, let them decide" instead of trying to influence for a Clinton Presidency. I suppose the Boris Johnson visit has gone pretty well on the face of it, a Trade deal however clearly has to suit both parties and I have a feeling that Trump may drive a hard bargain.

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