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Thread: To scrap or not to scrap, Mega electrics fault

  1. #1
    Junior Member Mr Flint's Avatar
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    To scrap or not to scrap, Mega electrics fault

    In desperatly need of advice on 2000 S Type Sport V6 Manual.
    Without any warning Ive got a huge electrics problem, Initially I think it could be down to damp / water ingress
    The symptoms are almost quicker to say what is working rather than not
    Here goes
    Working systems
    Heater blower, radio. horn, windows, central dash (heater and Radio) illumination, Lights on warning when opening doors. key fob will silence imobiliser horn after battery connect

    Not working Systems
    All lights, both interior and exterior, indicators, rear fogs, steering lock wont disengage, starter.

    Ive had the codes profesionally read and reader cannot get beyond immobiliser.

    The message centre shows the following warnings
    Steering locked, failed rear lights, Failed rear indicators, Failed front indicators, Failed side markers,
    The ignition doesnt recognise the key. This has never been a problem in the past.
    The rear electronic module (next to fuel filler) is ticking when I connect the battery.

    I would think that if it was a fault in the ignition system that the lights etc would work anyway.
    I did manage to get the car started and all the faults on the message centre cleared as I used them.
    Ive tried all the obvious checks, fuses etc. The battery is good and only 5 months old. It has been checked on ammeter tester and all good.
    I spoke to local Jag main dealers workshops and the technician was also puzzled. He even said if I was closer to them he would be interested in seeing it out of interest to him.
    I appreciate that these sort of problems could be so complex that it could become an uneconomic repair.
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Many thanks Ian

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jimbov8's Avatar
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    Firstly disconnect the battery and put it on charge for 24 hours. While that's happening, go around the car and check the ground points, including the main battery terminals. Ensure they are all clean and, when you reconnect the battery, tight.

    When the battery comes off charge, leave it for 1 hour then test with a voltage meter that you have at least 12.6V.

    Then reconnect and try again.

    The reason I say this is so we and more importantly, you, have a good known starting point.

    Dont give up just yet.
    Last edited by Jimbov8; 23-03-17 at 14:56.
    Jim.
    2009 XK 5.0L PortfolioPast:-87'XJS 3.6L, 93'XJ40 3.2L gold, 95'XJ6 4.0L sport, 00'XJ8 3.2L sport, 2005 XK8 4.2L coupe in that order and enjoyed all of 'em.

    I do not offer advice, I only say what I would do with the set of circumstances presented. Your choice always.

  3. #3
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    Hi
    Look to see if you had a water leak in the boot when you charge the battery. If there is any sign of water. Dry everything, look for corrosion on the fuses and relays. Deal with and try again.

    Good luck
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
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  4. #4
    Junior Member Mr Flint's Avatar
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    Thank you for your quick replies. I will do that as I did check the main earth point off the battery but not the others.
    The boot is dry but I had checked for corrosion on the fusebox and it's ok
    I will do battery check and update with results.
    Many thanks Ian
    Last edited by Mr Flint; 23-03-17 at 16:05.

  5. #5
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    Do you have a copy of the JTIS?
    http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s-...archive-66031/

    This has all of the wiring diagram and step by step error finding.

    I had a bad earth connection on the battery due to corrosion. When it first showed up I had no electrics phoned the car rescue then the car started to make noise from the relay in the boot. It was the grey one in my car.
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoléon Bonaparte

  6. #6
    Senior Member Victor's Avatar
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    #1 Check that the battery is in top class nick. These cars DEMAND a good battery. If it's getting 'a bit tired' all hell can and does break loose, they throw up all sorts of faults.
    Give the battery a good charge and see what happens.
    A very cynical grumpy old man
    Late 2004 2.7D auto
    Connoisseur of Fine Ales
    "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming - What a ride, where are the wimmin?"

  7. #7
    Senior Member stue's Avatar
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    i'm with Victor re the battery i had a new varta silver battery on 3 years ago and have been throwing up fault codes for weeks. i had a 5 year guarantee with it. at first when tested they said there was nothing wrong with it as it started the car, but i insisted it was bench tested over 24 hours.....guess what battery no good for s type and was replaced.....
    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...2/stu/65xx.jpg 2004 2.7 DSE
    Bi-Xenons, Sat Nav, Fixed Phone, F and R Park Aid, Headlamp Wash, Heated Seats, Jag Voice, Elec Rear Sunblind, Auto Lights and Washers, Auto Dimming mirrors, Heated front Screen, Memory Seats, CD Multichanger.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stue View Post
    i'm with Victor re the battery i had a new varta silver battery on 3 years ago and have been throwing up fault codes for weeks. i had a 5 year guarantee with it. at first when tested they said there was nothing wrong with it as it started the car, but i insisted it was bench tested over 24 hours.....guess what battery no good for s type and was replaced.....
    .
    What battery did you get Stue?

    Have you measured your charging voltage for the first 30 minutes or so after starting to see what your charging system puts out?

    It should vary between 14.2 volts and 14.7 volts on the Diesel S Type if I remember.

    So your car should support both calcium and AGM batteries.


    Ian...

    I don't know what charging system is on your car, the modern calcium and AGM batteries need 14.4 volts constantly to charge them fully.

    So once you get it started measure the voltage for about 30 minutes or so to see what the voltage is.

    Our S Types have 3 different charging systems and one of them, the L3B, fitted to the 2.5-litre and post-2002 facelift 3-litre S Types gives out 15.3 volts for 5-6 minutes but then drops down to 13.6 volts for the rest of each journey, so these models never charge calcium and AGM batteries fully.

    Again I don't know anything about your car but it may be similar to our S Types which have power relays and fuses to each of 3 fuse/relay boxes which may have tarnished contacts.

    See if you can get wiring diagrams for yours to check.
    .
    Last edited by Jim_S-V6_2004; 27-03-17 at 09:45.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Mr Flint's Avatar
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    Update
    Thank you for the replies, The alternater was tested when the gremlin 1st appeared and it was putting out steady 13.9v at constant 2k revs.
    Ive charged battery over night on 4amp charger and allowed to stabilize for a couple of hours. Fitted to car it settled after 12hr at 12.8v and after 72 hrs remains stable at 12.65, so I assume I can rule out parastic drain. I ran a couple of direct earths to components but all effected curcuits remained dead. I did put a live to the boot courtisy light and this worked so earth is ok. I think this is something to do with alarm system as my experiences with Landrovers is that normally output lead from ancillary run to earth but the Jag is the opposite way round.
    I full understand that a bad battery will create problems but as both lighting systems and hazards do not work at all and should do with even with low battery voltage. I am a bit hesitant to spend £100 ish on new battery. Especially as this one is less than 6 months old.
    Ive checked all the earth points I can access - undo and retighten- though the copy of JTIS I have is a PDF for Left hand drive models, I would assume that the basics are in the same place. Trying not to sound dense but I cant locate the front earth points, the manual states "LH Front Inner Wheel Arch, rear" but nothing is obvious or are they behind the inner wheel arch splash covers?
    As the steering is locked its a right royal PITA and if I cant solve this soon I may have to get brutal so I can at least get the car in a better position out of the way on my (and landlords) driveway. Can anybody suggest a fix or where to hit it to do the least damage !
    Many thanks again for the appreciated suggestions.
    Ian
    S type 2000 V6 sport manual in black with Adamesh straight through pipes, doesn't purr but ROARS

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Hi Ian.

    First, the good news is needed

    Your battery is fine since it's holding charge.

    Your charging system is OK but seems different from the L3B I've described which gives 13.6 volts after the first 5-6 minutes at 15.3 volts. Can you check it sometime and let us know the initial voltage if it's not 13.9 volts?

    It's not enough to fully charge calcium or AGM batteries since they need 14.4 volts so you will need a home charger to top up from time to time.

    Yes the location of the points you're looking for from the description is behind the wheel arch liner. But I've not looked for it so I'm not 100% certain. Change the fuel filter while you're there, they get filthy and blocked.

    So... The problem...

    Sounds like loss of or low or intermittent power to the passenger compartment fuse box, that's where the minor lights get their power from.

    If you don't already know, the S Type switches the negative side to earth to energise a light or other device, the +12 volts is always present when a circuit is (let's say for explanation) "enabled but not switched on".

    So (in theory!) all lights and other devices should have 12 volts supplied to them all the time and should be easy to trace.

    This following info is for the 1999-2002 S Type...

    Power is fed to the passenger compartment ("primary") fusebox through fuse F25 (40 Amp) in the luggage compartment fuse box.

    You say a relay is clicking in the rear fusebox? Try to identify which one.

    System power is supplied to the car electrical system through fuses F23, F24, F30 and F31 and relays R1, R2, R4 & R5 in the same fuse box.

    I don't know if these relays are all the same type but if they are then you can mark them for their original position and then swap two at a time to see what happens.

    Relays may get burnt or tarnished internal contacts, and their external sockets and fuse holders can corrode, dropping voltage across them.

    Some relays have circuitry to keep themselves picked through a set of internal contacts until their supply power is removed, so if these contacts get tarnished the relay will pick and drop repeatedly.

    So if you're up to it pull and carefully check the sockets and fuse holders for corrosion and swap identical relays.

    The S Type Technical Guide/Introduction lists the fuses relays and other electrical info for the early (1999-2002) S Types but may not be completely accurate: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_q...9PVHVaX0k/view

    There's​ a copy of the Electrical Guide (wiring diagrams) for the 1999-2001 S Types here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_q...N2dGxoVWc/view

    .
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