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Thread: 2001 Air Con issue.

  1. #1
    Member Marcuspd's Avatar
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    2001 Air Con issue.

    Hi all,

    After going through all the other minor niggles on my new S Type 3.0 Sport, I only have the Air Con issue to sort out now.
    I've seen the DIY guide on http://jaguarclimatecontrol.com/diagnose/ , but it's not looking like my issue is either of the main two tests on there.

    Here's what I've done so far...

    Initially I had no heat either, so replaced the DCCV, which on inspection was clogged up with K-Seal which someone obviously lobbed into the coolant in the past in an attempt to stop a leak somewhere. I've flushed the system out and replaced with pink coolant. Now I have heat, just no cool.

    The compressor clutch kicks in when I turn on AC and coolant must be moving as pressure drops on the low pressure valve.

    I've replaced the two cabin evaporator temperature sensors and compared resistance to 4 others, 2 of which were known good. I've also cleaned the little sensor behind the grill to the left of the steering wheel.

    The high pressure side is a little low on gas at 35psi when running, with ambient temperature around 19 degrees C, although should still be within range. I doubt it's been filled up for years as the car has been stood in a garage for much of the last 10 years, as confirmed by MOT history. It's very unlikely that it has a leak anywhere with pressure still that high. I'm also led to believe that freon gas does not go off with age.

    According to http://jaguarclimatecontrol.com the climate control modules on pre-2002 cars are pretty solid and not prone to the failures from over current on the later modules. They don't even repair these modules, so this will have to be my last resort and I can't find a working second hand unit.

    I've replaced the ambient outside air temp sensor in the front grill, although the original was reading more or less correct anyway (cheap, so worth a try).

    The climate control module does seem to respond to temperature change requests. It ups fan speed the further away you request temperature from the actual ambient reading and almost comes to a stop when you set the temp at the same as ambient, as it should.

    There are no DTC's recorded in IDS for climate control.

    There appears to only be one fan on my S Type (I may be wrong) and this doesn;t come on with the AC, only when the engine gets warm. If the fan were the only issue though, when travelling at speed with good airflow through the condensor, the AC should still blow cold even without a fan operating. This doesn;t happen.

    Other than trying a Kwik Fit type drain/check for leaks with nitrogen test for £29, then refill for an extra £30, I'm running short on ideas.
    I do have an EZ-Chill type gauge and empty cannister of R134a, but refills at Halfrauds are almost £60 + £10 deposit on the bottle, Ebay refills are almost £50 unless you want to risk the "this is not r134a, but an alternative not controlled under the normal regulations", for £30.

    Anything obvious I'm missing folks? Other than this, the car is fault free now and going to be a keeper for a few years at least, with no rust and only 88K on the clocks.

    Cheers, Marcus

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Feel all your DCCV hoses after the engine has been idling with the AC on for around 5 minutes.

    If they are about the same temperature or only one hose is cool, your DCCV is not closing, they stick open mostly.

    .
    Last edited by Jim_S-V6_2004; 15-09-18 at 16:23.

  3. #3
    Member Marcuspd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_S-V6_2004 View Post
    Feel all your DCCV hoses after the engine has been idling withbtge AC on for around 5 minutes.

    If they are about the same temperature or only one hose is cool, your DCCV is not closing, they stick open mostly.

    .
    I checked after fitting the new DCCV a couple of weeks ago. There is definitely temperature difference between the hoses until I turn the heat up on the display. I have an infrared thermometer gun thingy.
    Also, there was no heat before as the old one was blocked, now, with the new DCCV fitted, I get full heat and can turn it down and the heat stops. It just never gets below ambient.

    I hoped fitting the new DCCV would also resolve the AC issue, but the main reason was to get heat to the cabin with winter approaching!

  4. #4
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    I have just repaired a a type with the same sort of problem. I found it to be the connector FC4_10 had a wobble contact which meant that the dccv was not being told how it should open or close. It is procedure b tests.
    Grumpy Old Git
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    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Well you can check the AC pipes by touch or with your laser thermometer gun to see if it's really cold on one side too?

    The cabin air is then blended by the blend flaps inside the plenum, from warm and cold air supplies.

    See our S Type Stickies, there's a thread on exercising the blend flaps, one or more might be faulty or stuck. They are each driven by a small stepper motor.

    Your cabin filter might be clogged, I can't remember if you've changed it recently?

    .

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuspd View Post
    Hi all,

    Now I have heat, just no cool.
    Do you mean the heater controls are not turning the heat off or is it just that the air con is not cooling below ambient temps ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuspd View Post
    The compressor clutch kicks in when I turn on AC and coolant must be moving as pressure drops on the low pressure valve.....

    .......The high pressure side is a little low on gas at 35psi when running, with ambient temperature around 19 degrees C, although should still be within range. I doubt it's been filled up for years as the car has been stood in a garage for much of the last 10 years, as confirmed by MOT history. It's very unlikely that it has a leak anywhere with pressure still that high. I'm also led to believe that freon gas does not go off with age.
    35psi at 19 degrees C is about right for the LOW pressure side, but way too low for the HIGH pressure side, you need to be looking for around 150psi. Freon doesn't 'go off', but after standing for 10 years, you have almost certainly lost a good proportion if not all. Even without a leak, air con systems will loose a certain amount over time, 10% per year is an often quoted figure, that's why we have to have them topped up now & then to maintain efficient cooling. Many manufacturers recommend a re-gas every 5 years, some every 2 years, 10 is beyond normal expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuspd View Post
    According to http://jaguarclimatecontrol.com the climate control modules on pre-2002 cars are pretty solid and not prone to the failures from over current on the later modules. They don't even repair these modules, so this will have to be my last resort and I can't find a working second hand unit.

    I've replaced the ambient outside air temp sensor in the front grill, although the original was reading more or less correct anyway (cheap, so worth a try).

    The climate control module does seem to respond to temperature change requests. It ups fan speed the further away you request temperature from the actual ambient reading and almost comes to a stop when you set the temp at the same as ambient, as it should.

    There are no DTC's recorded in IDS for climate control.

    There appears to only be one fan on my S Type (I may be wrong) and this doesn;t come on with the AC, only when the engine gets warm. If the fan were the only issue though, when travelling at speed with good airflow through the condensor, the AC should still blow cold even without a fan operating. This doesn;t happen.

    Other than trying a Kwik Fit type drain/check for leaks with nitrogen test for £29, then refill for an extra £30, I'm running short on ideas.
    I do have an EZ-Chill type gauge and empty cannister of R134a, but refills at Halfrauds are almost £60 + £10 deposit on the bottle, Ebay refills are almost £50 unless you want to risk the "this is not r134a, but an alternative not controlled under the normal regulations", for £30.

    Anything obvious I'm missing folks? Other than this, the car is fault free now and going to be a keeper for a few years at least, with no rust and only 88K on the clocks.

    Cheers, Marcus
    The fan (yes, there's only one) receives a signal from the ECU & usually will run when the compressor clutch engages. There's a control module attached to the fan cowl on the pre 2002.5 cars like yours, might be worth looking into that a bit more, but as you say, the fan should be negated when travelling, so I doubt it's your main issue. It sounds like the CCM is working OK, they are not prone to problems on the early cars, but should throw up a fault code if faulty.
    Does the condenser get hot when the air con pump is running? it should get quite hot quite quickly if there is sufficient gas circulating around the system. If it doesn't even get warm, the system needs a re-gas, but I would recommend going to someone with a good air con service machine as this will empty the system, dry out any moisture, which there will be, complete a leak test & finally re-fill with gas & oi etc.

    Regards, OW
    1999 S Type 3.0L SE, A truly lovely old girl that's served me well. Probably the best car I've had. Now retired.
    02.5MY (X202) S Type 2.5L SE, 58,000 miles, full Jag s/h, all papers, MOT's, receipts etc from new when purchased.
    2006 X type SE 2.2 Diesel. Supposed to be Mrs O's economical commuter car.
    2004 (X202) 2.5L Sport plus, to replace the 3.0L

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Does anyone think KwikFit's AC machine is foolproof, or can they still make it go wrong?

    I prefer Halfords Autocentres for AC vacuum, dry, lube and recharging, can't fault them so far.

    .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_S-V6_2004 View Post
    Does anyone think KwikFit's AC machine is foolproof, or can they still make it go wrong?.
    Technically, yes, it should be foolproof, the machine can pretty much do it all while the operator stands by & watches, but as the Douglas Adams quote goes

    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools".

    There are inputs that need to be made, such as weight of refrigerant, percentage of oil etc, &, as I understand it, manual overrides can be made for certain aspects, so in the end, I suspect a certain amount still comes down to the person using it.

    Regards, OW
    1999 S Type 3.0L SE, A truly lovely old girl that's served me well. Probably the best car I've had. Now retired.
    02.5MY (X202) S Type 2.5L SE, 58,000 miles, full Jag s/h, all papers, MOT's, receipts etc from new when purchased.
    2006 X type SE 2.2 Diesel. Supposed to be Mrs O's economical commuter car.
    2004 (X202) 2.5L Sport plus, to replace the 3.0L

  9. #9
    Member Marcuspd's Avatar
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    Cheers for the ideas. I'll have another look at it tomorrow and check temperatures around the AC system to try to give more clues.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Go to a Halfords Autocentre Marcus, don't fret too long.

    If your compressor is engaging there's enough pressure but it seems your refrigerant is ineffective for some reason.

    Their machine will take out the old refrigerant, dry the system with Nitrogen gas, vacuum it out again, pump in the correct amount of oil to lubricate the compressor, and add the correct WEIGHT of new refrigerant.

    All for £59! An absolute bargain for a perfect proper AC service!

    I've used them before for both cars and I'm going there this week for son in law's Santa Fe.

    .

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