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Thread: S-Type R engine probleme when cold

  1. #41
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    I thing now it's maybe a trouble about the intake butterfly! (Intake butterfly? You say like that? hahaha) Maybe a problem with...

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpape View Post
    I'm sure it's an electrical problem because when i'm going strong, engine turn good (any strange or bad noise) performance looks good too.

    So when i'm in 6th gear i have that problem but i thing engine need more electrik power (at 1250rpm). Do you think it's a good theory?

    Or maybe the torque converter... but why only on 6th? when i'm 60kmh and 1250rpm too i have the same problem when its the torque converter, but not. It's juste the 6th gear... weird... That problem makes me crazy hahaha.
    .
    Right, let's take this step by step...

    (Sorry this is a very long post, so you need to get a coffee!)

    Your STR is not an "S Type 2", perhaps that was a typographical error?

    So, it's an S Type R, we call them STR. They were built from 2002 until all S Types were stopped in 2007, although some references are by "Model Year" and say 2008.

    There is a summary here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_S-Type


    To know if I understand the problem...

    From your posts, I understand that you get this problem only at around 1,250rpm in 6th gear, but it does not happen at 1,250rpm in 5th gear.

    And it does not happen in any other way nor at any other combinations of speed and gear.

    Am I right in both of these?


    Ok, next steps...

    Your STR is able to fully charge any type battery. So your battery should show 12.7 volts any time you measure on the battery terminals.

    Do these for me please so we can advise...

    1. Please measure the battery voltage (always at the battery terminals and please check the cables and terminals are clean and that the cable connectors are tight) with the ignition off before you first start the car or after it has been off for a few hours, and tell me the voltage?

    2. Then please turn on your headlamps with the engine still off, wait 3 minutes and measure the volts again with headlamps still on, and tell me?

    3. Turn your headlamps and everything off, wait 3 minutes and measure again and tell me?

    4. Start the engine, measure the voltage again and tell me?

    5. Let the engine run for 2 minutes, then measure the voltage again and tell me?


    Thanks.


    Next steps:

    The initial 1999-2002 S Type models (3.0-litre V6 and 4.0-litre V8 only) were both designated as the "X200" and automatic transmission models had the Ford 5R55N automatic 5-speed gearbox. A manual gearbox was also available but I don't know anything about those.

    Your STR was produced from 2002 and has the ZF 6HP26 automatic 6-speed gearbox.

    The same gearbox is fitted in all automatic S Types which were built from 2002.5 (i.e. the second half of 2002) onwards. Those were designated as models X202 (2002 design change), X204 (2004 design change) and X206 (2006 design change).

    When it is in good condition, it is the smoothest auto gearbox I've ever had in any car.

    But it is Very sensitive to having the correct fluid in it. And many gearbox specialists put in the wrong fluid.

    So...

    1. Gearbox fluid level check...

    Can you do the gearbox fluid level check yourself in the same way as the video shows?

    Or Is there an independent Jaguar specialist near you?

    Or is there a competent mechanic near you who can check it exactly that way, without argument?

    If fluid level is low check the colour before topping up, it should be gold if the gearbox has original ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6 (ZF LF6) in it.

    If it's clean, gold and the level is correct then there is no need for further action, but consider doing step 2 sometime, or at least a full fluid replacement if you don't want to open the gearbox sump, because the life of the fluid and filter is 70,000 miles, not "sealed for life".

    If it's clean but not gold colour, we have a problem. If it's dark or black it's dirty and we have a problem. In both cases we need to do step 2.

    The cost for checking this should be only 1 hour for labour, (because the gearbox must be warmed or cooled to the right temperature first, as per the video) plus 1 litre of original ZF LF6 to top up.

    2. Gearbox Service...

    This is gearbox filter (it's part of the gearbox sump), new bolts, Mechatronix Connector Sleeve Seal, and Mechatronix Adapter Seal replacement, and also complete gearbox fluid replacement....

    You can buy a complete "kit" of all these parts, without fluid, for about £90 and you can buy separately the original ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6 (NOT Lifeguard Fluid 5!!), or Shell M1375.4 which is the OEM fluid supplied to ZF by Shell for this gearbox. This fluid is red not gold colour, but is the correct specification.

    Do Not use generic "6 speed gearbox fluid" because those are Dexron spec fluids and they will probably cause slippage and/or rough gearchanges and/or kicks.

    There are other fluids from Ravenol, Meyle, Mannol (AG55) and maybe others which are suitable but be Absolutely Certain that they specify Only Shell M1375.4 and No Other Specifications!

    Here in the UK we can get genuine Shell M1375.4 from Smith & Allan (eBay and direct order at http://www.smithandallan.co.uk), who are a Shell distributor, for about £90 for a 20-litre drum, delivered: https://www.smithandallan.com/produc...6-alternative/

    You need 14 litres to have all the fluid completely replaced (10 litres) by using a fluid exchanger machine at a garage.

    The usual procedure is to replace the sump etcetera, then replace all the fluid, then reset the TCM Adaptions, then perform the TCM Drive Cycle in sequence. These last 2 steps are done using a diagnostic machine which is capable of doing them on Jaguars.

    Many BMW specialists can do this because some BMW models have the same gearbox and they are familiar with servicing it.

    The total cost here is about £400 to £450 with ZF LF6 fluid, or about £300 to £350 with Shell M1375.4 fluid.

    As you see, I have done a lot of work on batteries, charging systems, and finding correct alternative fluids for the ZF 6HP26 gearbox.

    So these are the next steps I suggest, after measuring your battery volts exactly as I described above and telling me.

    Thank you.

    .
    Last edited by Jim_S-V6_2004; 30-12-18 at 23:12.

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  4. #43
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    Thank you, ok a STR 2003, good post. I give you the battery mesure like you said. I'm not sure exactly how to make that but i will find with a friend.

    I have'nt control the trasmission fluid but... If the gearbox have a problem it have this problem all time, not? Because i thing is not the transmission directly concerned. How i said, wenn i drive the problem come just at 1250-1500 rpm. And wenn press the pedal down, transmission works very good. I thing the transmission fluid change was proffessionaly maked.

  5. #44
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpape View Post
    Thank you, ok a STR 2003, good post. I give you the battery mesure like you said. I'm not sure exactly how to make that but i will find with a friend.

    I have'nt control the trasmission fluid but... If the gearbox have a problem it have this problem all time, not? Because i thing is not the transmission directly concerned. How i said, wenn i drive the problem come just at 1250-1500 rpm. And wenn press the pedal down, transmission works very good. I thing the transmission fluid change was proffessionaly maked.
    .
    Don't assume anything.

    I am trying to avoid recommending to change the Torque converter, because the fluid certainly can cause this problem.

    We have seen similar to this before, and usually the problem is a vibration ("shudder") which new, correct fluid stops because it has additives in it to do that.

    But low or high fluid level and dirty or burnt fluid can also cause this slippage or shudder.

    So we should check it first, it's the cheapest check.

    Most gearbox specialists make mistakes on this ZF gearbox because they use general fluid for "any 6 speed gearbox".

    That's wrong.

    It does not like general 6-Speed gearbox fluid.

    We have proven that, because at least one of our members was convinced to use generic fluid by a gearbox "specialist" and he had rough gearchanges and slippage immediately. He forced them to replace all of the fluid with the correct one and the problems stopped.

    And don't forget that the STR puts the maximum force on this gearbox fluid, 400bhp!

    In fact, very few people (or maybe nobody) has changed gearbox fluids on this gearbox except some members of this forum and some members of the USA Jaguar forum.

    These gearboxes were originally labelled "sealed for life" and even 3 years ago my local Jaguar dealer would not change the fluid. They would only replace the whole gearbox for any problem!

    So I do doubt that your fluid has been changed, unless you have receipts or confirmation that it has been changed? People selling cars often lie or don't understand what you ask and just say it was done.

    If it has been changed, usually the gearbox specialists only drain out 6 litres and refill 6 litres, not all 10 litres.

    When the fluid gets old it causes strange problems like slippage and vibrations, but is the cheapest to change if you use a garage which has a machine which replaces all the fluid, all 10 litres. And use Shell M1375.4, not ZF LF6.

    Anyway, please read my previous post again, I have added more information for you.

    You need only a digital volt meter to measure the voltages for me, so don't worry, you can buy one for around £/€/$15 or less anywhere.

    But check the cables on the battery are clean and tight before you measure or you will get wrong readings. If you need to disconnect the cables from the battery, you need to know the code for your radio before.

    Thanks again.

    .

  6. #45
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    Have a look under the car at the screws that hold the black plastic cover on the bottom of the gearbox. Are they nice and clean.

    It would not be the first time that a car salesman will say that they will do a service and then forgets about it because of the cost. It costs around 400 euros to do a service on materials.
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoléon Bonaparte

    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

  7. #46
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    Jim we have to keep it simple and short.
    He does not speak English, he comes from the French speaking part of Switzerland and he would have to use Google translate.

    Your advice is very good but complicated to understand if English is not your first language.
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoléon Bonaparte

    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

  8. #47
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    OK bud.

    Written language is not so hard since we can read it more than once.

    And I think our friend understands most of it, but is just a bit "rusty" when he is writing.

    Xpape tell me if you don't understand something.

    .

  9. #48
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    Rusty hahaha, yes thank you, i have understand Jim. With google translate no problem.

    Screw and platik look new. But maybe the fluid is wrong. I need to look color at first. I thing not a lie. It's a private dealer not garage.

    I do not have time to do everything you told me but when it will be done I will tell you.

  10. #49
    Senior Member Jim_S-V6_2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpape View Post
    Rusty hahaha, yes thank you, i have understand Jim. With google translate no problem.

    Screw and platik look new. But maybe the fluid is wrong. I need to look color at first. I thing not a lie. It's a private dealer not garage.

    I do not have time to do everything you told me but when it will be done I will tell you.
    .
    Don't worry bud.

    The problem is not so urgent.

    Bookmark this thread so you can find it again easily.

    So take it step by step, we don't want you to waste money.

    We wish you and everyone a very happy New Years Day and 2019.

    .

  11. #50
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    It could be that the cars gearbox memory is still learning your driving style as you do seem to like low revs. 1250 in 6th gear is not a lot in my opinion.

    Have fun tonight and tuck the car up as you don't want a dent caused by a firework.
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoléon Bonaparte

    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

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