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Thread: Air con not cold.

  1. #21
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    S type air con

    Quote Originally Posted by orsom weels View Post
    Yes, same here, one of the few things that is better on the X type. I wonder if some of the difference is down to the cooling fan behaviour? On the X type, when air con is on the rad fan runs more or less flat out, it's quite obvious that it is working regardless of engine temp, whereas on the S types (all 3 I've had/got) you can hardly detect the fan running unless engine temp is high, & even then it doesn't seem as powerful as that on the X type (2.2D). The X type will deliver ice cold air standing still with the engine at idle, the S types however, only really deliver that amount of cooling when travelling at speeds of over 25-30mph, suggesting to me they need more airflow through the condenser &/or the compressor needs to run faster. When stationary, they do cool below ambient temps, but certainly not 'ice cold'.
    All that said, if the OP's compressor clutch is not pulling in, it won't cool no matter what speed/RPM's the car/fan is doing. My first thought would have been pressure sensor, but it sounds like that may have been replaced, is this what you are referring to by "a new pressure valve"? so second thought, given what has already been done, would probably be a wiring fault to the compressor clutch. The wiring does tend to get quite brittle in that area & can break or become high resistance. If shorting the relay brings the clutch in, that will prove the wiring is OK, if not, kit may be something worth looking into a bit deeper.

    Regards, OW
    Thanks for the advice, particularly the fact that the fan does not run loudly when air con is requested. We'll repeat our test of shorting out the compressor clutch relay to confirm that when the clutch pulls both the low and high pressures are as they should be (the pressure sensor was renewed even though the old one tested okay). But then we propose checking the thermistors establishing that they all meter out roughly the same as each other, and respond to temperature as they should. I wonder if they are negative or positive Temp. Coeff?

    But previously the heater valves had burnt out damaging the air con module, so we replaced the valve and salvaged an air con module from a similar registration 3 Lt S type written off in a collision. The module had the same part number other than for the final pair of letters. It works everything else perfectly and I can find no pin out changes to account for the air con clutch relay not being called to its duty - the relay itself is fine. Is there an easy way of intercepting the cable wire from the module to the relay?

  2. #22
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    If you go here you can download a copy of the jaguar training course for the air conditioning servicing.

    Everything appears to have been explained.

    www.jagrepair.com/images/Training Guides/703_SG.pdf

    SERVICE TRAINING COURSE 703 JAGUAR CLIMATE …
    Last edited by ducmon; 04-01-19 at 21:04. Reason: Added link
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
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    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04str View Post
    Mine does not behave as just described. Fans run fast, air is ice cold.

    Difference due to it being X202 / STR?
    I've always felt the fan needs to run much faster on mine, that's been the case with every other car I've had with working air con, but as all 3 of our S types have behaved very similarly, I just figured that must be how they are. The old 3.0l is/was an X200, but the other two are X 202's. I do get nice cold air, but have to be moving fast enough to get some airflow to get it really cold. I'm convinced a faster running fan would help in this respect. Something to look into when I have a spare moment, but Mrs O tries to keep those to a bare minimum

    Regards, OW
    1999 S Type 3.0L SE, A truly lovely old girl that's served me well. Probably the best car I've had. Now retired.
    02.5MY (X202) S Type 2.5L SE, 58,000 miles, full Jag s/h, all papers, MOT's, receipts etc from new when purchased.
    2006 X type SE 2.2 Diesel. Supposed to be Mrs O's economical commuter car.
    2004 (X202) 2.5L Sport plus, to replace the 3.0L

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04str View Post
    Mine does not behave as just described. Fans run fast, air is ice cold.

    Difference due to it being X202 / STR?
    That's one of the things I struggle with, the car was adapted from a US model so presumably it would have the same ventilation system, and the Yanks love their air con... The X type uses the Mondeo Mk 3 package, which is a few years newer in design so would be more efficient?

    I mean it works, but the Mondeo/Xtype one will set to 17C, the S type only goes down to 19C.

    It seems to struggle when cooling. New condensor rad, new drier fitted, original compressor though. Maybe that is worn a bit? At least you can see the thing on the S type...
    Last edited by Lost it; 06-01-19 at 06:31.
    2001 3.0 SE Auto, Satnav, winter pack. Dark Blue, all the toys.
    2004 3.0 Sovereign Estate. Winter pack. Fixed. For Sale.
    2005 Estate X type 2.2 Sport.
    2000 V8 3.2 XJ8 LWB. "Prom" car. Lovely. Should sell this one too really...
    2005 "AllyCat", 3.0 XJ6 SE.
    2000 S type 4.0 V8. Latest toy.
    VFR800A and a VFR 800F

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  6. #25
    Senior Member Rondu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost it View Post
    That's one of the things I struggle with, the car was adapted from a US model so presumably it would have the same ventilation system, and the Yanks love their air con... The X type uses the Mondeo Mk 3 package, which is a few years newer in design so would be more efficient?
    That's factually incorrect, you need to read the history.

    Doug.
    My Boat,Train, Plane & Crane
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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducmon View Post
    If you go here you can download a copy of the jaguar training course for the air conditioning servicing.

    Everything appears to have been explained.

    www.jagrepair.com/images/Training Guides/703_SG.pdf

    SERVICE TRAINING COURSE 703 JAGUAR CLIMATE …
    Alas, the link doesn't come up for some reason. I'll try a few more times as hopefully it will give something of a clue as to why the air con module is not addressing the compressor clutch relay. Once that is sorted we can wait for a warm day and go for a run to see of we can get any cold air even if it won't be that good when at a halt! But I wonder if it could be one of the thermistors.....

  8. #27
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    Try this one
    http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Trai...des/703_SG.pdf
    Unfortunately, it is more applicable to the 1999 - 2002.5 X200 models, which are a bit different to the later cars, but it gives the basics.
    I don't think a faulty thermistor would stop the air con compressor clutch engaging, as the system should pulse on & off regardless of temperature to dehumidify the air inside.
    If you can bypass or manually trigger the relay for the clutch, that will prove the wiring & the clutch it's self is OK, or not.
    It may also be worth checking the wiring diagram, you can download the appropriate one for your car here, http://www.jagrepair.com/JaguarSType...OBDIIcodes.htm

    Regards, OW
    1999 S Type 3.0L SE, A truly lovely old girl that's served me well. Probably the best car I've had. Now retired.
    02.5MY (X202) S Type 2.5L SE, 58,000 miles, full Jag s/h, all papers, MOT's, receipts etc from new when purchased.
    2006 X type SE 2.2 Diesel. Supposed to be Mrs O's economical commuter car.
    2004 (X202) 2.5L Sport plus, to replace the 3.0L

  9. #28
    Senior Member Lost it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rondu View Post
    That's factually incorrect, you need to read the history.

    Doug.
    I have.... I don't agree with a lot of what it says though, but I am somewhat biased.

    "There are a lot of Lincoln/Ford shared components, chassis parts, fuel system parts, common components all over. Even the motor is similar. Commonality, but with distinction. While designers wanted to keep the cars distinct, Szczupak says they knew significant savings could be realized in many areas “if done right.” For example, both cars would need items such as fuel-system and climate-control components, basic transmissions, axles, etc. that could be procured in common for design and volume cost savings. “But the Jaguar would have to ride and handle differently, with a different powertrain, and shift-pattern and air-conditioning software,” he emphasizes. The platform’s suspension geometry is common in castings, but aligned, tuned, and damped to produce distinct feel and control. Shock absorbers (see sidebar) and power steering valving are different as well."

    Here's the clue...

    https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/jaguar/s-type-x200/


    https://www.aronline.co.uk/archive/archive-lincolnjaguar-marriage-bears-first-fruit/


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_LS
    Last edited by Lost it; 06-01-19 at 07:16.
    2001 3.0 SE Auto, Satnav, winter pack. Dark Blue, all the toys.
    2004 3.0 Sovereign Estate. Winter pack. Fixed. For Sale.
    2005 Estate X type 2.2 Sport.
    2000 V8 3.2 XJ8 LWB. "Prom" car. Lovely. Should sell this one too really...
    2005 "AllyCat", 3.0 XJ6 SE.
    2000 S type 4.0 V8. Latest toy.
    VFR800A and a VFR 800F

    Still beating cancer. Trevor 2, Cancer 0.

    Sure I took the Red pill....

  10. #29
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    Air con fault

    Quote Originally Posted by orsom weels View Post
    Try this one
    http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Trai...des/703_SG.pdf
    Unfortunately, it is more applicable to the 1999 - 2002.5 X200 models, which are a bit different to the later cars, but it gives the basics.
    I don't think a faulty thermistor would stop the air con compressor clutch engaging, as the system should pulse on & off regardless of temperature to dehumidify the air inside.
    If you can bypass or manually trigger the relay for the clutch, that will prove the wiring & the clutch it's self is OK, or not.
    It may also be worth checking the wiring diagram, you can download the appropriate one for your car here, http://www.jagrepair.com/JaguarSType...OBDIIcodes.htm

    Regards, OW
    Thanks for the reference, I eventually managed to upload the student notes and read through all the models to see if anything gave a clue, but as you say it covers the earlier S type. I've the full workshop manuals and wiring diagrams so we will see if the ECM is actually outputting a request to the relay providing we can intercept the cable form somewhere (PL41-37 possibly) but that may prove difficult. Otherwise as we can S/C the relay and get the clutch engaged I rather think it traces back to the air con module and the differing final pair of letters on the part number. If so, we then have the problem of finding the right replacement module. The old one is long gone unfortunately.

    To trace the part number will probably mean us contacting Jaguar directly. I hope that won't be too bad. Thanks everybody for you advice, the car is lovely but another summer like the last and it will have to go and we will take to the road in our trusty old Rover 75!

    By the way what does WDS mean in the various publications? The abbreviation isn't listed as far as I can see.

  11. #30
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    It would be easier to have your old one rebuilt.

    If you Google it you will find quite a few firms.

    Here is one for example

    http://www.ecutesting.com/catalogue/...dar180835.html

    WDS stand for world diagnostic system, it was the ford/Mazda forerunner of the SDD/IDS.
    Grumpy Old Git
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
    Napoléon Bonaparte

    2003 (botox) S type 3.0 sport with manual gearbox, as rare as rocking horse apples

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