[TheVoices2]

On the way home from our Jaguar Drivers Club meeting on Monday, a car came out of a side street less than 1/4 mile from home at speed and ran into the passenger side of the XJR.

To add insult to injury, after pushing us across the road, he proceeded to flee the scene without stopping !

It all happened so fast that I couldn't get a registration number or even a definite make and model for the car that hit us.

My wife already has back problems after spinal surgery in her teens, she is suffering from more lower back pain than usual and has had to go for an X-ray to make sure that the metal rods in her back haven't been dislodged.

We reported the incident to the police immediately, but as usual you just get a crime reference, I have suggested that they check for CCTV footage in the area.

The impact was on the back edge of the front door, runs down the rear door and onto the wheel arch, the rear wheel also took the impact and is now 'toed in' by about 40mm.

I will not name my (well known) insurance company for the moment, I have all three of my Jags insured with them.

I have been absolutely appalled by their claims process, I called the claims line and explained the damage to the call handler, he immediately said 'that will be a write off, I will pass you through to the right department and they will make you an offer'

When I asked about sending out an assessor to look at the damage, I got the response 'well, it's a 2004 car and it will need at least both doors so it's bound to be a total loss'

I wish I could say that his assessment sounded like it was based on years of experience of repairing Jaguars, but unfortunately it sounded like the only experience he had was posting on Twitter !

When I persisted in asking for an expert to examine the car, I was told ' we don't send out assessors now due to Covid', when I forcefully explained that there have been no significant Covid restrictions for over a year and that this was just a cop out, he had no sensible response other than 'it's our policy'

I requested that I could at least send images of the vehicle to assist with the decision whether to repair or write off and was given details of how to upload images and evidence.

The insurance companies claims portal allowed me to upload as many images as I wanted, I also sent over screen prints of every X350 XJR currently for sale on Autotrader, Ebay and Pistonheads, just to make sure I made them aware of the current market prices.

They immediately sent me what looks like a 'generic' email, stating that they have decided that my car is a total loss and that they will be instructing a salvage company to collect the vehicle (to avoid them incurring storage costs)

The only saving grace is that because the incident occurred so close to home, I was able to limp the car back onto my driveway, therefore there are no storage costs.

I responded to their email and confirmed that the vehicle will remain in my possession and that I will retain full title until we reach an agreement to the valuation.

As usual, insurers try to base the value on the suggested 'retail' prices from Glasses Guide and CAP Black Book (I already have access to this information as I work for a Jaguar Land Rover main dealer)

The issue is of course that there are very few 2004 '54' plate XJR's for sale at any one time, therefore the trade guide valuations are, at best, a guesstimate.

The current offer is £7,000 (less my excess), my car has just under 103,000 miles, full history and was in fantastic condition prior to the accident.

I spent months looking for the right car, it was my 50th birthday present to myself.

The closest equivalent that I can find for sale anywhere, privately or with a dealer, is up for £10,450 at this moment in time.

There are of course crazy lower mileage cars, mainly Japanese imports that are frighteningly expensive, the £29,995 8,000 mile Super V8 is just one example.

I am obviously ruling out these 'unicorn' cars but think that the current offer is not enough for me to replace my car on a 'like for like' basis.

As far as I am aware, the whole point of insurance is to put you back in the same position you were immediately before the accident, in this case, the only way to do that is to payout enough to replace the car with as close as possible to an identical vehicle ?

When I sent them a long but polite email stating my case and offering to discuss the matter with their loss adjuster (or whatever they are called these days), they have immediately escalated the matter to a customer complaint, which buys them up to 8 weeks to respond under FCA guidelines.

An interesting loophole is that, because so far neither we, nor the police can trace the other driver and vehicle, it is not classed as being hit by an uninsured driver !

Therefore, we cannot make any kind of claim against the central insurance fund that is set up for this purpose.


Any thoughts, sympathy, input, or details of any cars for sale that tick the right boxes are gratefully received.

 

[MrKis]

Sorry to hear about your incident.
Have a good drive or walk around the area, you might spot a house with a camera that might have caught the car going past before or after. Do it as soon as you can because cameras overwrite what they store.

You might even spot the car.

I think the insurance company would look to pay you the trade price rather than the retail but they are still a grand off that, minimum.

 

[taffyhornblower]

So sorry for the news mate, fingers crossed they catch the scroat and you get the result you want form the insurance.

Good luck

 

[JimC64]

So sorry to hear mate, fingers crossed for the best outcome for you

Unfortunately you won't get compensated for the pain, hassle and grief.

Best of luck

Jim

 

[CanyonLakeJags]

So sorry to hear about (and see) the damage to your poor vehicle. Here's what I did; note that I'm not sure this all translates from U.S. insurance policies and procedures to UK, but it's worth asking:

My father-in-law was driving the 2004 XJ that I bought him, and as a thank-you, he brought it to my house one day and drove it into a large pillar at the front of my home. It had some cosmetic damage to the front lower bumper, some bent bits on the front suspension, etc. Insurance estimated that the repair would cost 80% of fair market value, and their policy is that if it's over 75%, they pay it out. Too much risk for them to approve repairs and then, upon tear-down, find out that there's incremental hidden damage that needs to be repaired. They'd rather pay it out.

We accepted the payment and bought the hulk back from the insurance company for their stated value: $800. We then found a local body shop to do the repairs for much less than the payout. I was in the same boat you were in, in that the payout wouldn't have replaced the car, and even if it came close, I would be rolling the dice with someone else's vehicle, compared to the one that I knew really well. So in the end, I was happy.

/Doug

 

[FlatCap]

Keep possession till the finance's are optimised,have a research for parts required,consult a repairer about the sill damage, have a brew and weigh it all up.

That cill damage is in a major structural area and there will be a lot going on in that corner. Be costly to repair i would think.

Insurance is a right set of burglars, only ever one winner.

 

[jberks]

What many people don't realise is that economic Write-off is partially your decision. You have 2 options available to you if you want to keep the car.
The first is find a quality, smaller bodyshop and have a conversation with them. I have a guy I've known for a few years. When my Daughters's Fiat was 'written off', due to a dent in the door, he negotiated a lower repair cost with the insurer that kept it off the write-off register. The repair was still excellent but I suspect he probably repaired rather than replaced.
The second option is to buy the car back, which they will allow you to do. 2 used doors, some panel beating and paint and it'll be as good as new and I suspect you'll have cash left over. Sure it's now a CAT N, but it's an older car that you aren't planning to sell anyway.
Worst case, do the above and you may have to contribute a little (though I never have have had to on the 3 or 4 occasions I've been through this).

 

[TheVoices2]

Thanks everyone, unfortunately with an aluminium bodied vehicle like the X350, repairs are not as straightforward as with a 'conventional' steel bodied vehicle.

The rear quarter panel (wing) has a lower section that is 'tied into' the sill, the only option to do it properly is to replace the entire rear quarter (my wheel arch is damaged anyway)

This part alone is about £1,700+ VAT, the inner and outer sill is approximately £900+ VAT.

If I was getting it done myself, I could use second hand doors but new they are £1,500+ VAT each !

I can buy any parts at the 'real' trade price via work, but still needs a proper body shop that is used to working on similar cars, we use a Jaguar / Land Rover approved bodyshop for our repairs.

It isn't just a case of cut out the damage and weld in repair sections.

I would then need to address what damage has occurred to the rear suspension / subframe due to the impact on the rear wheel.

To make matters worse, I have already had a chat with our parts manager, and some parts are no longer available from Jaguar.

I would far rather the insurer just take it away and fix it, but this isn't going to happen.

Resigned myself to the fact that there is no viable way for me to retain the car.

All I want to do is walk away with enough to replace it with as close to identical as I can.

 

[TheVoices2]

Sorry to hear about your incident.
Have a good drive or walk around the area, you might spot a house with a camera that might have caught the car going past before or after. Do it as soon as you can because cameras overwrite what they store.

You might even spot the car.

I think the insurance company would look to pay you the trade price rather than the retail but they are still a grand off that, minimum.

Thanks for the advice, I have already been back to the scene.

Two houses on the street appear to have cameras but one looks like a 'dummy'

I have passed on this info to the police, as I feel a bit uncomfortable knocking on a strangers door and asking to see their CCTV footage.

We also spoke to the school across the road, who appear to have cameras but insist that they don't.

The petrol station at the bottom of the road that the other driver used to make his getaway were very helpful, they have cameras but they were unable to see any details due to the distance.


Insurance companies are meant to pay out the replacement 'market value', rather than the 'trade' value, as otherwise no one would have any chance of replacing their car on a like for like basis, unless they are in the motor trade.

The suggested retail price from CAP Black Book is about £6,300, so the insurer thinks they are doing me a favour at £7,000 !

Needless to say, try finding someone willing to sell you their XJR for that amount.

The only ones I have seen anywhere near that price in the past are 170k miles plus and with some issues.

I think the lesson is, to speak to a specialist insurer when I come to renew, they might at least know what an XJR is !

 

[JimboV8]

Resigned myself to the fact that there is no viable way for me to retain the car.

There is always the option of parting it out and weighing in what’s left to mitigate the difference in what the insurance company will pay you. The complete interior and wheels will probably get you around £1500, then there’s the engine and gearbox. Something to think about.

 

[TheVoices2]

I don't think they will pay out the £7,000 and let me keep the car ?

Breaking it would be one idea but I don't really have the time or inclination to pull it in bits on my driveway.

The engine and box would be useful to keep as a backup in case anything happens to my S-TYPE R, but I don't think Sue would be keen on me using it as a coffee table until I need it !

 

[MrKis]

Thanks for the advice, I have already been back to the scene.

Two houses on the street appear to have cameras but one looks like a 'dummy'

I have passed on this info to the police, as I feel a bit uncomfortable knocking on a strangers door and asking to see their CCTV footage.

Insurance companies are meant to pay out the replacement 'market value', rather than the 'trade' value, as otherwise no one would have any chance of replacing their car on a like for like basis.

The suggested retail price from CAP Black Book is about £6,300, so the insurer thinks they are doing me a favour at £7,000 !

Needless to say, try finding someone willing to sell you their XJR for that amount.

The only ones I have seen anywhere near that price in the past are 170k miles plus and with some issues.

I think the lesson is, to speak to a specialist insurer when I come to renew, they might at least know what an XJR is !

I know what you mean about knocking on doors but I've been asked twice over the years if my camera may have seen something. I was happy to help.
You could leave a note with the day, time and an email address. Probably a long shot unless there are three or four houses with cameras further up or down the road, then the odds improve.

I don't know why CAP and other sources lack behind reality on prices for XJRs. Similarly on STRs too.

 

[t0m4ever]

I managed to get hit by an uninsured driver who went straight through some red lights, who then did a runner as soon as they could get the door open.

The valuation the insurance company gave us for the car was less than we paid for it a year before, and conveniently ignores that prices had all gone up since then. Trying to buy a similar car with the same mileage for that price is impossible.

If you are local to the area you could try posting on a local facebook group asking if anyone has dashcam footage from that day and time. You could get lucky.

 

[ducmon]

Here in Germany it is possible to you to have an assessment undertaken at your own cost. I paid 240 Euros for an independent valuation made on my Morgan.

When I insured it I gave a copy of the report to the insurance company who agreed to insure it for this amount.

I have to have this done every 2 years but it is worth it as there is only 4 or 5 of this model car in Europe. Due to the costs of importing another from Britain it is insured for over 10,000 pounds more than they cost in British.

As you work for a main dealer for Jaguar. They must know your car so why don't you ask them to value your car. The insurance company will not know that you work for them.

Just get them to write down the price that they would have charged you for a car in the same condition. Then you have something to show the insurance company that is not based on your personal valuation.

 

[TheVoices2]

Here in Germany it is possible to you to have an assessment undertaken at your own cost. I paid 240 Euros for an independent valuation made on my Morgan.

When I insured it I gave a copy of the report to the insurance company who agreed to insure it for this amount.

I have to have this done every 2 years but it is worth it as there is only 4 or 5 of this model car in Europe. Due to the costs of importing another from Britain it is insured for over 10,000 pounds more than they cost in British.

As you work for a main dealer for Jaguar. They must know your car so why don't you ask them to value your car. The insurance company will not know that you work for them.

Just get them to write down the price that they would have charged you for a car in the same condition. Then you have something to show the insurance company that is not based on your personal valuation.

Unfortunately my car is far older than anything a Jaguar main dealer will sell, any valuation that I can get from work would just be based on CAP and Glasses Guide 'suggested' retail prices.

Generally, we won't sell anything over 7 years old, occasionally up to 10 years, but it needs to be something very special.

If I need to, I can probably speak to some of the specialists that deal in older, more unusual Jaguars. Someone like Swallows, Arun or Chiltern Jaguar might be able to provide me with a written valuation but again, it depends on whether the insurance company will accept this as 'an expert opinion'

 

[TheVoices2]

I managed to get hit by an uninsured driver who went straight through some red lights, who then did a runner as soon as they could get the door open.

The valuation the insurance company gave us for the car was less than we paid for it a year before, and conveniently ignores that prices had all gone up since then. Trying to buy a similar car with the same mileage for that price is impossible.

If you are local to the area you could try posting on a local facebook group asking if anyone has dashcam footage from that day and time. You could get lucky.

My wife has already posted on Facebook and uploaded images of the car, no concrete information or evidence has been forthcoming unfortunately.

 

[TheVoices2]

I know what you mean about knocking on doors but I've been asked twice over the years if my camera may have seen something. I was happy to help.
You could leave a note with the day, time and an email address. Probably a long shot unless there are three or four houses with cameras further up or down the road, then the odds improve.

I don't know why CAP and other sources lack behind reality on prices for XJRs. Similarly on STRs too.

Thanks you, a note with my contact details and an explanation might be an idea ?

I think the problem with the trade guides when valuing older and rare cars is that there never enough of them for sale at one time to get a real 'average'

Consequently, I presume that they rely on an algorithm which calculates age / mileage / estimated percentage depreciation and then spits out a figure ?

 

[ducmon]

Do have legal insurance? I won a case against NU when they undervalued my motorcycle.
Judges don't like the bandits as well.

 

[TheVoices2]

I do have legal insurance, don't know whether the policy would allow me to claim against my own insurer for undervaluing my car though ?

 

[ducmon]

It does not cost anything to ask