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2004 XKR ECM

817 Views 18 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  fplanel, 
fplanel
Hi, I having trouble with my ECM/ECU since I followed this week-end a recommendation from the IDS / SDD software. Here is the story

1/ P0603 error code started to show, certainly due to a disconnected battery for month (I am currently restoring this car to life)
2/ Engine was starting good but had problem over 3000 rpm (misfire / huming engine / smoke at exhaust)
3/ IDS/SDD says to run the L1D ECU upgrade, what I did but during the programm sequence many error codes appeared (ABS / Gearbox / Speed control) and the engine came into restricted mode (all these codes are coming from modules wired behind the ECU itself, thus self explanatory !)

I suspect a wrong programm sequence maybe due to a weak battery condition (still IDS showed battery status as green but voltmeter was indicated 12.1V only).

Now IDS does not see the ECU anymore so no way to restart the programming sequence.

Is there a way to reprogram the ECU without having its CAN bus accessible ?
If I change the ECU with a new one, would it be possible to reprogram if with my VIN number ?

Thank you for your help on this

François
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O
Yes, your problems are almost certainly due to low battery. NEVER EVER attempt module reconfiguration/re-programming without an external power supply connected.

Try disconnecting the battery overnight to allow all capacitors in the modules to discharge, and any volatile memory to be lost, then re-connect the ECU before re-connecting the battery. Hook up an external power supply and see if IDS will let you configure the ECU via the 'configure new modules' facility. If this doesn't work, an ECU repair facility should be able to rescue your ECU, or if you can find a second hand replacement with the same part numbers, you can sort the PATS security programming (easy), and also change the VIN, but that's a bit of a chore. I did it a long time ago on an S type that we were just messing about with as it was essentially a scrap car, but I can't remember all the details. I do remember it was easy to change the VIN once we got in to the correct screens etc.
Sorry I can't give more on that at the mo, but will probably have IDS connected to an XK8 later, so will see if I can have a quick look and jog my memory. Will update if any further info gleaned ;)

Regards,
OW
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fplanel
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Thank you Orsom for your help. My first though on the fact that the ECM lost its CAN network preventing the latter to be programmed again might be false. I have found the following diagram showing that a dedicated link to programm the ECM exists. Nevertheless this is not documented in any of the documentation I have (electrical guide, advanced electrical guide, ECM pinout diagram), strange ! Should this "reprogramming Power Supply" wire (X100 Data Link Connector) be used ?

Rectangle Font Slope Parallel Number


I'll follow the sequence you described next week and let you know if my ECM is coming back to life.

Waiting for further advice from you

Regards

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O
Sorry for the delay in coming back to this, been a bit occupied with other things. Any luck with resurrecting your ECU?
You don't say what year your car is, but the early 97/8 cars used a different ECU to subsequent years, and it seems these are now of an age where capacitors are breaking down and causing issues. I am working on such a car at the moment, and am about to attempt replacing a couple of leaking capacitors to see if I can rescue it. More on that in i's own thread if it works out.
Reprogramming these early ECU's appears to require a VCM1 data link, as although I can connect to and read the ECU with a Mongoose cable, if I attempt to reprogram, IDS asks for the VCM1 to be used, and I can go no further. For the later ECU, it seems a Mongoose cable will allow reprogramming (as was the case with he S type), although I didn't actually continue with the programming, I selected 'NO' when asked if I wished to continue and backed out of it. However, it did jog my memory a little, and from what I can now remember, to change the VIN (in the S type ECU) with IDS, go into 'Vehicle configuration', select 'ECU module data read application', where you should then see the info held in the ECU, and be able to edit it. It was a good while ago I did this, and as said, it was on an S type, not an XK, but it did all look to be the same, apologies if that doesn't turn out to be the case.
If looking for a replacement ECU, in the spare wheel well is a PECUS sticker with a list of numbers for the various modules. Find the one for ECM, and it gives the programming level of the module, so if you match that, it will be correct for your car, and will just need the PATS key chips coding, or you can swap the key transponder module, pick up ring, keys etc that are from the same car as the replacement ECU.

Let us know how you get on :)

Regards,
OW
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Mean Mr Mustard
orsom weels said:
You don't say what year your car is,
Click to expand...
Orsom, François says his is a 2004 in the title.

Which may be good news, as on our Shaguar project, we noticed a big difference in the price of replacement ECUs between the AJ26 and AJ27 variants (£300 vs £50), so could a replacement ECU be a reasonable punt in this case?

François, the XK8 in question at Orsom's is 'Hercules' - recently seen on our Home for Ageing X100s thread (see below). Once Orsom has solved its issues (seemingly anything from a replacement capacitor to entire ECU, starting with the cheapest options and working up. As mentioned, this will be posted up in full for the benefit of the wider knowledge base.

I remain in awe of Orsom's skills, and bon chance to François in fixing his XK too.
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fplanel
Orsom, Phil, first of all, thanks for your help in this "Module configuration maze".

My car is a 2003 XKR 4.2L SC but it is reported as a 2004 X100 in SDD

I tried to read the 2 eeprom memories from my old ECU with no success assuming it is a m93c86 3.3V/2KB chip model, all data seems to be erased. My goal was to transfert the data from chip to chip and have a backup of the initial data too.

I have replaced my ECM with a new one 2 days ago, same model. All instruments cluster display error codes have now disapeared but the car is not cranking, certainly due to non-matching data between the new ECU and other security involved modules.

I have checked in the boot for this PECUS sticker, and found nothing !?

I have plugged my IDS/SDD V131.03, run diagnostic which have reported a P1260 error among others.

What should I do in order to make my car crank again ?

Kind regards

François
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O
5
Mean Mr Mustard said:
Orsom, François says his is a 2004 in the title.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wood and trees :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

fplanel said:
Orsom, Phil, first of all, thanks for your help in this "Module configuration maze".

My car is a 2003 XKR 4.2L SC but it is reported as a 2004 X100 in SDD

I tried to read the 2 eeprom memories from my old ECU with no success assuming it is a m93c86 3.3V/2KB chip model, all data seems to be erased. My goal was to transfert the data from chip to chip and have a backup of the initial data too.

I have replaced my ECM with a new one 2 days ago, same model. All instruments cluster display error codes have now disapeared but the car is not cranking, certainly due to non-matching data between the new ECU and other security involved modules.

I have checked in the boot for this PECUS sticker, and found nothing !?

I have plugged my IDS/SDD V131.03, run diagnostic which have reported a P1260 error among others.

What should I do in order to make my car crank again ?

Kind regards

François
Click to expand...
Hi Francois
The P1260 code is basically telling you that the key hasn't been recognised by the new ECM.
These are the Jaguar specific possible causes for this code;

Invalid ignition key code
Passive anti-theft system (PATS) signal to
instrument pack missing or corrupted
Security message (PATS) CAN failure

You will need to program the keys to the new ECM with IDS, but to do this, you must have a minimum of two keys. Assuming you have, then connect and start IDS. Enter 'Vehicle configuration'
Computer Personal computer Font Screenshot Gadget


Then select 'set up and configuration' and click the blue tick in the lower right corner.
Gadget Font Display device Multimedia Electronic device
Output device Font Computer Screenshot Communication Device

From the menu select 'Security', and click on the cross to the left, and you should get a drop down menu,
Gadget Computer Font Personal computer Communication Device

From this menu, select 'Program new transponders' and click the blue tick in lower right corner and follow the prompts.
Computer Font Display device Rectangle Electronic device


Make sure you have a good fully charged battery, and also connect a good charger or other auxiliary power supply while completing this.
Your remotes probably still work, but if not, you can program these by selecting 'Program new keyfob transmitters' from the 'Security' menu.

As your car is a 2004, it may not have the VCATS/PECUS sticker in the boot, it seems this was done away with, but not sure when.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
OW
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Mean Mr Mustard
orsom weels said:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wood and trees :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


Hi Francois
The P1260 code is basically telling you that the key hasn't been recognised by the new ECM.
These are the Jaguar specific possible causes for this code;

Invalid ignition key code
Passive anti-theft system (PATS) signal to
instrument pack missing or corrupted
Security message (PATS) CAN failure

You will need to program the keys to the new ECM with IDS, but to do this, you must have a minimum of two keys. Assuming you have, then connect and start IDS. Enter 'Vehicle configuration'
View attachment 65368

Then select 'set up and configuration' and click the blue tick in the lower right corner.
View attachment 65366 View attachment 65367
From the menu select 'Security', and click on the cross to the left, and you should get a drop down menu,
View attachment 65369
From this menu, select 'Program new transponders' and click the blue tick in lower right corner and follow the prompts.
View attachment 65365

Make sure you have a good fully charged battery, and also connect a good charger or other auxiliary power supply while completing this.
Your remotes probably still work, but if not, you can program these by selecting 'Program new keyfob transmitters' from the 'Security' menu.

As your car is a 2004, it may not have the VCATS/PECUS sticker in the boot, it seems this was done away with, but not sure when.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
OW
Click to expand...
Further to that, if you do only have a single key for the new ECU (as was the case with Shaguar) there is a firm who will cut a second key based on photos you supply and also transponder chips. PM me if you need to do this and I will look up the details Orsom provided at the time.

cheers

Phil
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Mean Mr Mustard
Should add that we do like to see photos of XK's, especially with interesting scenery...

Why not open up an ownership thread here to share your fun times? The forum is really about those fleeting glimpses of fun, in between the fixes... :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:(y)
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fplanel
Mean Mr Mustard said:
Further to that, if you do only have a single key for the new ECU (as was the case with Shaguar) there is a firm who will cut a second key based on photos you supply and also transponder chips. PM me if you need to do this and I will look up the details Orsom provided at the time.

cheers

Phil
Click to expand...
orsom weels said:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wood and trees :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


Hi Francois
The P1260 code is basically telling you that the key hasn't been recognised by the new ECM.
These are the Jaguar specific possible causes for this code;

Invalid ignition key code
Passive anti-theft system (PATS) signal to
instrument pack missing or corrupted
Security message (PATS) CAN failure

You will need to program the keys to the new ECM with IDS, but to do this, you must have a minimum of two keys. Assuming you have, then connect and start IDS. Enter 'Vehicle configuration'
View attachment 65368

Then select 'set up and configuration' and click the blue tick in the lower right corner.
View attachment 65366 View attachment 65367
From the menu select 'Security', and click on the cross to the left, and you should get a drop down menu,
View attachment 65369
From this menu, select 'Program new transponders' and click the blue tick in lower right corner and follow the prompts.
View attachment 65365

Make sure you have a good fully charged battery, and also connect a good charger or other auxiliary power supply while completing this.
Your remotes probably still work, but if not, you can program these by selecting 'Program new keyfob transmitters' from the 'Security' menu.

As your car is a 2004, it may not have the VCATS/PECUS sticker in the boot, it seems this was done away with, but not sure when.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
OW
Click to expand...
Hi Orsom,

Today, I succeeded in starting my car ! Back to life but not yet fully recovered

I did the following:

1/ Connect SDD through JLR/Mangoose V131.03
2/ Read VIN => get the new ECU VIN number
3/ Go to "Recommandations menu" and run Security - Immobilization set-up

And the car agreed to crank...

Then I followed your instructions regarding key fob programming with no success but my key fob was not working with my former ECU neither. SDD reports a communication failure with the Security Locking Module.

Maybe it is time to give you more information about this car history:

when I bought this car, the following modules needed to be replaced due to flood:
  • Security Locking Module
  • Parking Aid Control Module
  • Driver & Passager seat Modules

SDD shows that there is no Key Transponder Module, I don't know if this one is in place or not (I haven't yet dismanteled my facia to check). At first I thought that the KTM was mandatory in a car for the key fob but since SDD is asking if I have one installed, there is maybe an option to connect the key fob to the SLM without having a KTM ?

Now that I have replaced my ECU, I have different VIN in each of the following modules:
  • ECU
  • SLM
  • Adaptive Damping ride control (not replaced by me)
  • BPM (not replaced by me)

Kind of a mess !

Could having a SLM with different VIN than the ECU and BPM explain why I have this communication failure ?

I was not able to find how to set all modules' VIN to the one that is engraved on my windshield, I don't even know if this is possible.

Do note that I have only one key fob but I will follow Phil recommandation to make another one.

As soon as everything is working as expected I will publish the complete story of this car.

Regards

François
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Mean Mr Mustard
Orsom - I've now sent Francois the key cutting firm info and part number for the transponder, extracted from the Project Shag conversation, so he should be good for sorting that out.
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Mean Mr Mustard
fplanel said:
Maybe it is time to give you more information about this car history:

when I bought this car, the following modules needed to be replaced due to flood:
Click to expand...
:eek::eek::eek: Choqué!
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O
Mean Mr Mustard said:
:eek::eek::eek: Choqué!
Click to expand...
Shocked indeed :eek:

fplanel said:
Now IDS does not see the ECU anymore so no way to restart the programming sequence.
Click to expand...
fplanel said:
1/ Connect SDD through JLR/Mangoose V131.03......


SDD reports a communication failure with the Security Locking Module.


SDD shows that there is no Key Transponder Module, I don't know if this one is in place or not (I haven't yet dismanteled my facia to check). At first I thought that the KTM was mandatory in a car for the key fob but since SDD is asking if I have one installed, there is maybe an option to connect the key fob to the SLM without having a KTM ?
Click to expand...
Ok, obviously a bit more to this than I originally thought!
Firstly, can we confirm whether you are using IDS or SDD? You originally refer to IDS not seeing the ECU, but subsequently mention SDD several times. WDS automatically launches SDD, but if the system maps are not present for the car you are connecting to, it will then ask if you wish to launch IDS. The two systems are very different, and the guides I have given were assuming IDS, but your description of what you've done sounds like you're using SDD?

On the early cars, the Key transponder module was dependant on market specification and security options. In the electrical guides and manuals, it is referred to as 'Optional' or 'If fitted', and the following footnote is included

NOTE: Check market specification and/or
vehicle option specification for fitment of
Security Immobilization System.

However, from around the 98 model year on, it seems to be fitted to all cars, so you should have one. The fact you had to run the immobilisation set up tends to confirm this. The KTM decodes the key PATS chip and talks to the BPM and ECM to allow the signal from the ignition/starter switch to go to the starer motor and also gives the ok for he fuel pump to start etc. It's worth noting the wiring diagrams show significant changes in 2003.

The Security and locking module deals with locking/unlocking and alarm functions, and gets it's signal from the remote via an antenna in the rear window, which is hard wired on the coupes, but via a coax on convertibles, which can break with the constant flexing from raising and lowering the hood. The remote fobs themselves can stop working due to the little micro switches failing amongst other things. It is possible that mismatched VIN's in the SLC, BPM and ECM could cause some issues, but I have read reports of folk using second hand SLM's with no problems.

As previously mentioned, I have changed the VIN in an S type ECM, and can't see why that would not be possible in the XK8 module, but don't know about the others. Logic does suggest to me that if they are 'programable' modules, then it should be possible to re-program them?

It sounds like you are gradually working your way through several issues and slowly getting there. I look forward to hearing 'the complete story' (y):)

Bonne chance mon ami,

OW
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Mean Mr Mustard
The key cutter won't sell on the continent for some strange reason, something to do with unreasonable trade barriers on low-value orders, I should imagine. :rolleyes:

But we already knows he'll happily sell to me - so we can adapt, improvise and overcome to get another X100 back on the (wrong side of the) road... Let's hope the flood isn't now dissolving the underside...
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O
Mean Mr Mustard said:
The key cutter won't sell on the continent for some strange reason, something to do with unreasonable trade barriers on low-value orders, I should imagine. :rolleyes:

But we already knows he'll happily sell to me - so we can adapt, improvise and overcome to get another X100 back on the (wrong side of the) road... Let's hope the flood isn't now dissolving the underside...
Click to expand...
Reading Francois post, I'm not sure it's the key he's referring to? He says "Do note that I have only one key fob", which I am now thinking might be meaning 'Remote fob'? I don't think he could have coded the key with only one key transponder chip, as you can't then complete the process to store the keys, so end up with none sored.
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fplanel
2
orsom weels said:
Shocked indeed :eek:





Ok, obviously a bit more to this than I originally thought!
Firstly, can we confirm whether you are using IDS or SDD? You originally refer to IDS not seeing the ECU, but subsequently mention SDD several times. WDS automatically launches SDD, but if the system maps are not present for the car you are connecting to, it will then ask if you wish to launch IDS. The two systems are very different, and the guides I have given were assuming IDS, but your description of what you've done sounds like you're using SDD?

On the early cars, the Key transponder module was dependant on market specification and security options. In the electrical guides and manuals, it is referred to as 'Optional' or 'If fitted', and the following footnote is included

NOTE: Check market specification and/or
vehicle option specification for fitment of
Security Immobilization System.

However, from around the 98 model year on, it seems to be fitted to all cars, so you should have one. The fact you had to run the immobilisation set up tends to confirm this. The KTM decodes the key PATS chip and talks to the BPM and ECM to allow the signal from the ignition/starter switch to go to the starer motor and also gives the ok for he fuel pump to start etc. It's worth noting the wiring diagrams show significant changes in 2003.

The Security and locking module deals with locking/unlocking and alarm functions, and gets it's signal from the remote via an antenna in the rear window, which is hard wired on the coupes, but via a coax on convertibles, which can break with the constant flexing from raising and lowering the hood. The remote fobs themselves can stop working due to the little micro switches failing amongst other things. It is possible that mismatched VIN's in the SLC, BPM and ECM could cause some issues, but I have read reports of folk using second hand SLM's with no problems.

As previously mentioned, I have changed the VIN in an S type ECM, and can't see why that would not be possible in the XK8 module, but don't know about the others. Logic does suggest to me that if they are 'programable' modules, then it should be possible to re-program them?

It sounds like you are gradually working your way through several issues and slowly getting there. I look forward to hearing 'the complete story' (y):)

Bonne chance mon ami,

OW
Click to expand...
Hi Orsom,

I confirm that the software is switching to SDD automatically, I never see any proposal for IDS.

I have checked again the connection of the antenna plugged into the SLM and I have cleaned-up the micro switch in my FOB, having no frequency scanner, hard to see if any signal is sent by the latter and/or received by the SLM.

According to you I should have a KTM installed, SDD shows a question mark for this module. If I summarize, my KTM might be inactive and the connection with my SLM according to SDD when trying to programm my key seems to be bad.

Rectangle Azure Font Screenshot Software


Product Rectangle Azure Font Software


I will get another FOB but having read several times what you wrote about SLM, BPM, ECU and KTM I do not fully understand the connexion between them in the security process related to key fob.

What if I change my KTM ? should I program the new one ?

Next to do : trying to extract the program and eeprom data from my new ECU and transfer it to the old one.

Again thank you for your help.

Regards

François
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fplanel
Mean Mr Mustard said:
The key cutter won't sell on the continent for some strange reason, something to do with unreasonable trade barriers on low-value orders, I should imagine. :rolleyes:

But we already knows he'll happily sell to me - so we can adapt, improvise and overcome to get another X100 back on the (wrong side of the) road... Let's hope the flood isn't now dissolving the underside...
Click to expand...
Phil,

That's very kind of you to offer me to receive and send back to me a new key with its FOB.

I will PM you some details

Thank you

François
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O
Hi Francois,

fplanel said:
Hi Orsom,

I confirm that the software is switching to SDD automatically, I never see any proposal for IDS.

I have checked again the connection of the antenna plugged into the SLM and I have cleaned-up the micro switch in my FOB, having no frequency scanner, hard to see if any signal is sent by the latter and/or received by the SLM.
Click to expand...
Do you have a coupe or convertible? If Convertible, check continuity of the coax between the SLM and antenna, and also, as you said it had been in a flood, could it be that water has got in the wiring and/or coax and is causing interference or just corrosion?

fplanel said:
According to you I should have a KTM installed, SDD shows a question mark for this module. If I summarize, my KTM might be inactive and the connection with my SLM according to SDD when trying to programm my key seems to be bad.
Click to expand...
I think there is a little confusion here, earlier you said you had been able to
"Go to "Recommandations menu" and run Security - Immobilization set-up
And the car agreed to crank... "
This suggests you were able to complete the key PATS security programming, and your key now works and starts the car? Is this not the case?
As said earlier, The key works through the KTM, but the remote fob works through the SLM, two different and separate systems.
fplanel said:
View attachment 65517

View attachment 65518

I will get another FOB but having read several times what you wrote about SLM, BPM, ECU and KTM I do not fully understand the connexion between them in the security process related to key fob.

What if I change my KTM ? should I program the new one ?

Next to do : trying to extract the program and eeprom data from my new ECU and transfer it to the old one.

Again thank you for your help.

Regards

François
Click to expand...
As you say, the only real way to test a remote fob is with a signal tester, but it is unusual for all 4 buttons to stop working, it's usually the lock and unlock buttons that fail, and the boot release and light buttons still work. If you are getting nothing, it could be a completely dead remote, or that it's signal is just not being received or decoded.

The various modules you mention all work with one another using three different communication networks, but again, I think there is some confusion. Can you confirm what you mean when you refer to key fob please. I interpret it as you meaning the remote fob, but do you actually mean the key?
To try to clarify, The key has a built in PATS chip, which is read by the KTM, which then talks to the ECU. The remote fob sends a signal which is received by the antenna/SLM, which then talks to the door and boot locks, the door modules and the BPM.

If you fit a new KTM, I'm fairly sure you would have to reprogramme the PATS keys to it.

Regards,
OW
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fplanel
Hello, no much time to work on my XKR right now but I have tested my antenna and it seems it is ok. According to SDD, and as shown in my previous message pictures, the KTM is not recognized on the bus despite it is working according to your description of the process since my key is effectively working.
I open and clean my remote fob, no success, it seems it is dead...

I am currently working on a new adaptable seat switch pack PCB as mine has broken tracks.

Back to the car next week-end for a very first road test; I'll keep you updated

Regards
François
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