3.0 v6 tuning and manual gearbox

15322 Views 45 Replies 14 Participants Last post by neilb659, 26 d ago

2004 s type sport

Discussion Starter · Oct 13, 2017

Hello. i have a 3.0 v6 s type sport that i have been modding for a while and now im looking for some more power. i dont want an str before any one asks just looking to tune my v6 :-D i have heard the 5 speed gear box is too weak to handle any serious tuning but i am interested if it would be able to handle 300 bhp okay and i am also interested in gearbox swaps. from what i read i beleive there is a 6 speed manual box in some of the 2.7 D jags is this any tougher than the 5 speed and would it be swap able into the 3.0? would it throw codes and would it even fit. is the bolt patter the same? i dont mind cutting the tunnel if i have to am just curious if it would bolt up okay. i know its not as simple as that but would it fit with some small mods will it fit into the 5 speed holes.l also is the 6 speed any tougher is this a pointless swap? as for tuning if any one is interested i was thinking some head work mabye a few other bits and eventually take it to a specialist and get a super charger. thank you for any replies am grateful for any input.
cheers rob.
p.s. i understand the cost and work that this will require... :-D:-D:-D

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JOEDOTCOM

· #2 · Oct 13, 2017

Hi
Realistically, you will struggle get 300 bhp out of the 3.0 v6, Normally aspirated engines are hard to get extra power out of
the 3.0 v6 already has more power than its ford counter part, where the engine originally came from
only way to get 300bhp easy is to turbo and that would be no easy task
the 4.2 v8 only produces 300bhp and the V8 is a far better engine tune
as for the 6 speed manual was introduced for the diesel in 2004, which I'd say would be a straight swap mechanically , but would need software change to work in the car correct and also like most other gearboxes they get weaker with the addition of a extra gear,
Why no just go for the S-type R, Oh Yeh you said not to say that, right erm, erm
Let us know how you go on
cheers
Joe

04str

· #3 · Oct 13, 2017

STR likely to be a lot cheaper than (doomed) attempts to get 300HP out of 3.0

2004 s type sport

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 13, 2017

cheers for the feed back and i think its realistic to get 300 bhp... it has 240 stock with air intake high flow exhaust and gas flow heads maybe little other engine internals i reckon it would 300 easy maybe bit less. also i amused the 6 speed would be a bit stronger due to the 2.7 being a twin turbo. when the turbos kick in its a lot of force and would have presumed the gear box would be a bit tougher and for the str i just dont want one to manual swap one is 7k for the box plus labour to have it fitted and i would just love to have something different. but as for the 6 speed what do u think it would take to have it installed and not trhow codes a custom remap?

04str

· #5 · Oct 13, 2017

You're really not going to get to 300HP. And who do you think can do the tuning?

Jim_S-V6_2004

· #6 · Oct 13, 2017

The ZF 6HP26 6-speed auto box is used in all 2002.5+ S Types including the 400bhp STR.

No idea about any manual S Type gearboxes, sorry.

.

JOEDOTCOM

· #7 · Oct 13, 2017

Hi
If you put the 6 Speed manual in yours all you will get it "limp mode", 5 speeds used a gearbox sensor for speed ref, 6 speed dont have it, they use abs for speed, so the the engine management wont work right, as the engine use gearbox info heavily to run correct, hence so many engine faults and limp modes, when you get trans faults
the 6 speed is very similar to the 5 speed, how do you get 6 to fit inside 5, make every thing thinner, gears and synchros, hence why they would be weaker
since they never made a 3.0v6 6 speed manual, the no software for engine, trans, body module and dash, all these would need to be updated with some thing that dont exist
engine mods, air filter with cold feed from front 3 to 6 hp, air filter with cone filter in engine bay, every boy racers dream, -5 hp due to heat soak, exhaust 5 - 10 tops with a remap, manifold will give the best power release, but goodluck with them, custom made, biggest boost would be cams, but then you get idling issues along with mot emmisions problems.
also if you think its got 240 hp, get it dyno'd, you will be shocked
cheers
Joe

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Jim_S-V6_2004

· #8 · Oct 14, 2017

JOEDOTCOM said:
Hi
If you put the 6 Speed manual in yours all you will get it "limp mode", 5 speeds used a gearbox sensor for speed ref, 6 speed dont have it, they use abs for speed, so the the engine management wont work right, as the engine use gearbox info heavily to run correct, hence so many engine faults and limp modes, when you get trans faults
the 6 speed is very similar to the 5 speed, how do you get 6 to fit inside 5, make every thing thinner, gears and synchros, hence why they would be weaker
since they never made a 3.0v6 6 speed manual, the no software for engine, trans, body module and dash, all these would need to be updated with some thing that dont exist
engine mods, air filter with cold feed from front 3 to 6 hp, air filter with cone filter in engine bay, every boy racers dream, -5 hp due to heat soak, exhaust 5 - 10 tops with a remap, manifold will give the best power release, but goodluck with them, custom made, biggest boost would be cams, but then you get idling issues along with mot emmisions problems.
also if you think its got 240 hp, get it dyno'd, you will be shocked
cheers
Joe

.
Wow! Excellent, thank you again Joe.

Do you have knowledge of other 2-3-litre cars that are easy to do this sort of boost with?

.

JOEDOTCOM

· #9 · Oct 14, 2017

Jim_S-V6_2004 said:
.
Wow! Excellent, thank you again Joe.

Do you have knowledge of other 2-3-litre cars that are easy to do this sort of boost with?

.

Hi
In the past I have a lot to do with Alfa Romeo V6 and Twin cams, The best Boost for the £ on a NA car has all ways been cams, it the easiest way to get hp out of a engine, especially with head work
but I would never entertain doing it on a S-type, where more refinement is best, the cams suit the hooligan type car, because they produce power much higher in the rev range and with a well sorted engine, bottom end lightened and balanced, heads flowed and descent manifolds can create big power increases
but for a S-type, especially a daily driver, they are not the best, very lumpy idling when cold, in some cases so lumpy a brake servo booster tank has to be fitted, to store vacuum so servo works as it should, MOT and emissions, need a good mot'er to get passed and driving in traffic is not the best, so like a said would never do this on a s-type
cheers
joe

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Jim_S-V6_2004

· #10 · Oct 14, 2017

JOEDOTCOM said:
Hi
In the past I have a lot to do with Alfa Romeo V6 and Twin cams, The best Boost for the £ on a NA car has all ways been cams, it the easiest way to get hp out of a engine, especially with head work
but I would never entertain doing it on a S-type, where more refinement is best, the cams suit the hooligan type car, because they produce power much higher in the rev range and with a well sorted engine, bottom end lightened and balanced, heads flowed and descent manifolds can create big power increases
but for a S-type, especially a daily driver, they are not the best, very lumpy idling when cold, in some cases so lumpy a brake servo booster tank has to be fitted, to store vacuum so servo works as it should, MOT and emissions, need a good mot'er to get passed and driving in traffic is not the best, so like a said would never do this on a s-type
cheers
joe

.
Many thanks again Joe, good insight.

In my (ancient) days interest was high profile cams, polishing ports, Webbers, lightening the crank, over boring, but it was all costly when added up so I didn't do much other than a little bit on my bikes so I understand what you've described.

Now it must cost a fortune, doesn't it?

Thanks again.
.

JOEDOTCOM

· #11 · Oct 14, 2017

Jim_S-V6_2004 said:
.
Many thanks again Joe, good insight.

In my (ancient) days interest was high profile cams, polishing ports, Webbers, lightening the crank, over boring, but it was all costly when added up so I didn't do much other than a little bit on my bikes so I understand what you've described.

Now it must cost a fortune, doesn't it?

Thanks again.
.

Hi
Yes it can cost a fortune, Gone are the days where there use to be service engineers close to you, there use to be 5 near to me, now there's only one
its a throw away society, now if your cam belt snaps or even head gasket goes, unless its quite new, people just scrap them
I do all my own work, well most of it, but engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, even done some car body repair
I'd prefer to rebuild my own engine or gearbox, because once its done you know its done right, if you buy a used engine or gearbox, unless you seen it running and drove it, you don't know what your getting and I like to keep the car with its original engine or gearbox
I also spent some time stripping and rebuilding carbs on bikes and cars,twin webbers dcoe, nowadays you go to a garage and they dont want to rebuild engine's, they just want to refit replacement or a refurbished unit, I don't think many modern mechanics know how to work on carbs like webbers, they just look confused and wonder where to plug the laptop cable into
cheers
Joe

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Jim_S-V6_2004

· #12 · Oct 14, 2017

I think you're right there Joe.

All the best.

.

Darrell

· #13 · Oct 15, 2017

You so right about today's mechanics. The plumbers on sites now are the same. All the pipework comes in pre assembled in modules. Those modules are made in a workshop 60 miles away then delivered to site and simply bolted together!!

Mechanics have become replacers and plumbers have become installers.

Very sad because the old school skills are getting lost.

Jim_S-V6_2004

· #14 · Oct 15, 2017

Darrell said:
You so right about today's mechanics. The plumbers on sites now are the same. All the pipework comes in pre assembled in modules. Those modules are made in a workshop 60 miles away then delivered to site and simply bolted together!!

Mechanics have become replacers and plumbers have become installers.

Very sad because the old school skills are getting lost.

.
It's the same with everything Darrell, computer systems included.

The major companies just (but rarely) train installers, or subcontract to installer/part change companies, or even just send the bits to the customer to fit himself at his convenience.

The manufacturers used to provide technical training for their distributors and dealers for free, then they started charging for it. Now distributors don't often send people on training courses for fear they will leave (they do) so they poach from each other instead.

Profits by cutting all costs are paramount.

twin--turbo

· #15 · Oct 16, 2017

To see any reasonable improvement you're going to have to have 4 totally ( no blanks ) new cams, new ecu, custom exhaust headers, revised intake. Which is not going to be a few hundred quid. and still unlikely to make 300 or anywhere near.

TT

04str

· #16 · Oct 16, 2017

A 300HP S-Type is quite cheap (in UK) - just get a 4.2 NA.

2004 s type sport

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 18, 2017

good points thanks for the info although i cant believe how people are so concerned about the power lol i know its lost power over the years bu adding another 80 bhp say is no shocking task realistically if you gave the car to a specialist shop they could get you 1000 bhp if you wanted any thing is possible. i have mentioned head work general better engine flow and a supercharger if you dont think 300 bhp is possible with these mods you are just plain wrong unfortunately. i know this is all money as well btw. i have looked on jaguar racing forums and there was a post by a racer who has worked on s types since they came out and he said you can get 290 bhp with a remap exhaust, airflow, and engine porting so head work and a supercharger is easily gonna hit 300 bhp. but all the other info is great so i have realised 6 speed is pointless thats good info so its either an auto swap witch means i may as well get an r or try and strengthen the 5 speed... does any one know what exactly is weak on the 5 speed gearbox or is it just generally not great. cheers for all info really appreciate it does any one else here have any good mods fitted to their s type visual or performance?

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Henry_B

· #18 · Oct 18, 2017

A remap is useless on a n/a tbf you'd be lucky to get 10hp increase

Exhaust and intake mods will make it breath better, but again HP gains will be negligible

concerning the supercharger the cast internals of the 3.0 especially an aged unit will probably not be able to stand up to the increased pressures.

Thats why the 4.2 S/C has forged internals.

Tbf the 3.0 is bled dry power wise from the factory.

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payno

· #19 · Oct 18, 2017

concerning the supercharger the cast internals of the 3.0 especially an aged unit will probably not be able to stand up to the increased pressures.

I have seen many NA BMWs using a S/C with no problems you just need to keep the boost a bit lower the only real drawback is cost v gain

Henry_B

· #20 · Oct 18, 2017

payno said:
I have seen many NA BMWs using a S/C with no problems you just need to keep the boost a bit lower the only real drawback is cost v gain

He will have to pour a ton of money into it.

IMO it will be better to just get a V8 :-D

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