[leddfutt]

I have seen on various internet sites comments about the 2012 to 2014 V8 engine having a problem with timing chain adjusters needing replacement around 80k or worse failing and destroying the engine.

There is legal action going on in the USA but what I am interested in is forum members own experience of this problem, is it a rarity or are you pretty much guarenteed to need expensive mods / repairs.

Have any of you been unlucky enough to suffered this problem?

I ask because I am thinking of changing my car, a 2009 5.0 V8 XF Portfolio, for something V8 and newer ie around 2012 or 13. My car has been great and with only 65k on the clock has bags of life left and it would be galling to splash out a load of cash on a newer car that is less reliable than the one I have.

 

[Big cat little cat]

I had a 2010 XF Portfolio 5.0. It had been making a 'funny' noise on warm start up for some time. Fine on cold start, and fine all the rest of the time. I took it to a few places for diagnosis, some indies for JLR and all said the same. It's the timing chain tensioner rattle. A well known issue with these engines.

You perhaps know what happens? but basically the chain guide is aluminium, the tensioner pressing against it under oil pressure is steel. After a while the constant pressure of the steel on the aluminium causes an indent, thus allowing the chain guide to reduce the tension on the chain. The noise is the chain guide rattling momentarily on the chain. Left unchecked the engine will fail because the chain can jump a tooth on the gears.

Engine failure = blank cheque?
Replace the faulty parts with new parts (have they been redesigned? Nobody seems to know). Engine out job on an XF = £3500 to £4000.

I sold mine cheap before it failed. I do miss it but feel now nervous about buying another 5.0 V8 due to this poor design flaw. It had 120k miles on it.

 

[The Voices]

It is more likely to affect the earlier 5.0 V8's from 2009 onwards from what I read.

Presuming that the tensioner and guide set up were updated on later cars ?

 

[leddfutt]

It is more likely to affect the earlier 5.0 V8's from 2009 onwards from what I read.

Presuming that the tensioner and guide set up were updated on later cars ?

My understanding is that early engines are fine but later, post 2012, engines had a modified tensioner which is problematic. Confusion reigns and what we need is clarity, anything official from Jaguar ?

 

[Big cat little cat]

This is the problem. Nobody knows.

The earlier XF is probably better because it has the later 4.2 V8, which was better than the earlier 4.2 I think. But the later XF with the earlier 5.0 seems to be the problem, but did the later 5.0 get improved? Confused?!

It seems to be a mystery.

Somebody at the factory floor level must know when they started fitting the modified chain guides? I understand that the mod was to afix a steel insert at the point where the two metals meet. I have never seen one and can find no answer anywhere as to if/when this fault was ever cured.

 

[The Voices]

You read about plenty of problems with 5.0's from 2009 onwards, it doesn't just affect later ones.

One of our Jaguar master techs at work bought a 2011 XK convertible with engine issues to fix and resell.

He has had massive problems with it, even after fitting the latest chain and tensioner set up and he is wishing he never bothered !

I quite fancy an XFR, but the budget will only stretch to an early one (if I want to keep my other 3 Jags as well), it is the paranoia about this issue that is putting me off.

I will see if i can find any info when we are back at work, see if there are any technical bulletins or advisories that shed any light on the issue.

 

[The Voices]

My understanding is that early engines are fine but later, post 2012, engines had a modified tensioner which is problematic. Confusion reigns and what we need is clarity, anything official from Jaguar ?

The later tensioner was introduced to solve the issue on the earlier engines !

 

[The Voices]

I had a look on the SNG Barratt parts system (it mirrors what we use at work)

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/...es/XK/13/New XK/51/ENGINE/3197/assembly/14575

This link to the part numbers and assembly diagram shows that the 5.0 engines used two different types of timing chain:

'Tsubaki' chains on earlier VIN numbers and 'INA' chain system on later VIN's.

The part numbers for the guides and tensioners are also VIN specific.

I wonder if some of the confusion regarding 'uprated' chains and tensioners is because people (myself included) have been assuming that the 'newer' set up was an upgrade, rather than a change of supplier ?

There is some interesting info in this link regarding the differences in the chain setup:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/...arged-timing-chair-needed-replacement-213881/

 

[#steve]

Very interesting and scary at the same time.

I am doing oil changes every 6000 miles hoping clean fresh oil will help.

 

[Big cat little cat]

I am doing oil changes every 6000 miles hoping clean fresh oil will help.

It can't do any harm, seem to remember that Jaguar changed the oil spec from 5/20 to 0/20 or something like that (best check). The oil is not necessarily the problem though, as I understand it it's the steel part being constantly pressed onto the softer aluminium part. Over time (120k in my case) it increases the tolerance of the chain tension to the point where it's too slack. No amount of oil changing will prevent that.

Such a shame because I'll not buy another one because of the worry of it happening again, but in a few years time the big V8 will be a thing resigned to the history books and I'll wished I'd owned mine for longer, or owned another.
Same problem occurs with the Range Rover with the same engine, that's just easier to work on!

 

[#steve]

I phoned Millers Oils and they said both the 0W and the 5W were suitable for the V8, there was no advantage for either.

So if the guides are aluminium, do the newer ones have steel on them to help reduce wear?

I'm hoping to keep my V8 as long as possible and I have put money aside for when mine fail.

 

[The Voices]

Very interesting thread and the video is worth watching and the workshop diagrams in post #2 appear to show the 'modified' tensioners !https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xf-xfr-x250-44/interesting-video-about-5-0-timing-guide-wear-191810/

 

[#steve]

Thanks for that, very interesting.

At least I now know it's not an oil problem (although regular changes wont do any harm) and the new guides have been uprated.

Does anyone know the approximate cost for this job?

My guess is, as the car gets older it will be an uneconomic repair.

 

[#steve]

picture host

Here is a photo of the new guides showing the hardened area.

 

[The Voices]

The new tensioner is easy to spot as well, the 'piston' is at a slightly different angle to the earlier design.

This suggests that the earlier cars are just as likely to suffer from the same issues unless they have had the guides and tensioners replaced with the 'new' design ?

 

[#steve]

I have just read a interesting article by a Land Rover specialist in the USA.

They reckon 2010 - 2016 motors are the most at risk and its a $5-6k repair
.
If a cam chain slips and ruins the engine then your looking at $22,500 plus ancillary parts and labour. (2019 prices)

The chains are lubricated by oil spray tubes so clean oil is essential and they have been recommending 7500 mile service intervals although they are considering 5 or 6k.

So even with the updated guides and tensioners regular oil changes are recommended.

 

[Big cat little cat]

My guess is, as the car gets older it will be an uneconomic repair.

That's the reason I don't own mine anymore.

 

[The Voices]

I have just read a interesting article by a Land Rover specialist in the USA.

They reckon 2010 - 2016 motors are the most at risk and its a $5-6k repair
.
If a cam chain slips and ruins the engine then your looking at $22,500 plus ancillary parts and labour. (2019 prices)

The chains are lubricated by oil spray tubes so clean oil is essential and they have been recommending 7500 mile service intervals although they are considering 5 or 6k.

So even with the updated guides and tensioners regular oil changes are recommended.

The 'US' model year updates are usually a year behind the UK, so I would interpret that as 2009-2015 in the UK ?

 

[#steve]

The 'US' model year updates are usually a year behind the UK, so I would interpret that as 2009-2015 in the UK ?

That's what I thinking, a face lifted V8 XJ should be ok.

 

[Big cat little cat]

I will see if i can find any info when we are back at work, see if there are any technical bulletins or advisories that shed any light on the issue.

Hi, did you manage to find out any more info?

It's just a shame that there isn't an answer somewhere, like 'the problems were eliminated after Nov '15' or something. (I have pulled this date from thin air, don't read into it.)