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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just don't get on with this dash oil level reading but I'm stuck with it so need to know how I can get the best out of it.

Given I had fuel in the oil at the last oil change I need to keep a close eye on the level so do I run the car then let it settle for 30mins and take a reading or am I better off leaving it overnight and take a reading cold. In the workshop manual it say to get the oil gauge up on the dash and press the cruise control cancel button twice quickly then the oil level gauge should disappear then it asks you to press the trip button until the oil gauge shows again, this should be the true reading, mine does not do that if I press the cancel buttons as directed it just stays on the oil gauge.

Just one more question regarding oil types.

I know it uses C1 oil as it has a DPF but can you tell me what has oil got to do with the DPF how would a incorrect oil type affect the DPF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Unfortunately the best way to measure the oil quantity is with a dip-stick, something that Jaguar have chosen to omit from the XF.
Yes tell me about it they have the tube for oil extraction so could have easily incorporated the two what were they thinking.
 

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Yes tell me about it they have the tube for oil extraction so could have easily incorporated the two what were they thinking.
Thinking? Are you seriously suggesting that thought went into the decision not to have a dip-stick? It will have been a financial decision based on the fact that they wanted an oil extraction tube so they deleted the dip-stick to use that access for the extract tube. Personally I would be giving serious consideration to re-purposing said tube, sucking the oil out will never be as effective as draining through a drain plug.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
After much searching I found the dipstick..............................He's sitting in the design office at Jaguar HQ thinking of another daft idea :-D
 

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A dipstick works best!!

But the dipsticks at Jaguar decided to add a very complicated electronic measuring system instead of a metal stick in a tube. ;)
 

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Electronic oil levels were brought in so it reminds people to check if their oil is low. An enthusiast or DIY mechanic might check their level often but the average person most likely will never even lift the bonnet.

The new ingenium units from JLR all have a dipstick though.
 

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I really don’t see the problem. This is the second car I’ve had without a dipstick and in over 200000 miles no harm has come to either car.
if there is a problem with the level being too high, it will pop up a warning just as it will if you need to add a litre. If it says nothing, do nothing. It’s fine. The idea that you can check the oil condition from the dipstick is a fallacy. Oil can look pretty dirty and still provide perfectly good lubrication. None of us are capable of telling from a small sample. You need a lab and those that have sent a sample of 18,000 mile fully synthetic oil to a lab have been told it’s good for another 10k. Oil tech has improved dramatically in the last 20 years.
This is the same myth that has Americans running to their “lube shops” every 6000 miles to have their fully synthetic clean oil replaced.

I work in IT. It’s an industry that forces you to reassess your long held certainties every few years as the next revolution rolls through. I’ve had to abandon a few rules recently and it was difficult to accept but the facts were clear. The world has changed and the sound reasons we came up with those rules have disappeared and you can no longer justify your position. Of course there are those that can’t accept it. They just get sidelined and the world moves on without them.

a dipstick is a throw back to a world before sensors. Nice to have perhaps but ultimately unnecessary. I know the level in the Jag is fine because it’s not complaining. Every other car I have, I have to get some paper towel, go out in the cold, open the bonnet, get my hands dirty and check it manually. Which is really the better Way? It’s like tyres. None of my cars have TPMS. Now I know it’s not perfect technology but the fact remains, if you get a slow puncture and you have it, you’ll know well before I will.
 

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Electronic oil levels were brought in so it reminds people to check if their oil is low. An enthusiast or DIY mechanic might check their level often but the average person most likely will never even lift the bonnet.

Agreed but the average driver probably won't press the oil check bottom either :) Flawed thought process buy designers me thinks.

I had a 1951 Rover 75 Cyclops in my youth and that had a simple oil level check button on the dash that when pressed would use the fuel level gauge to read the oil level. Brilliant simple engineering and it also had a dipstick . Cars have evolved immeasurably since then but it appear they occasionally take a step backwards .
The designer of this should go far ........
The further the better :)
 

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I really don't see the problem. This is the second car I've had without a dipstick and in over 200000 miles no harm has come to either car.
if there is a problem with the level being too high, it will pop up a warning just as it will if you need to add a litre. If it says nothing, do nothing. It's fine. The idea that you can check the oil condition from the dipstick is a fallacy. Oil can look pretty dirty and still provide perfectly good lubrication. None of us are capable of telling from a small sample. You need a lab and those that have sent a sample of 18,000 mile fully synthetic oil to a lab have been told it's good for another 10k. Oil tech has improved dramatically in the last 20 years.
This is the same myth that has Americans running to their "lube shops" every 6000 miles to have their fully synthetic clean oil replaced.

I work in IT. It's an industry that forces you to reassess your long held certainties every few years as the next revolution rolls through. I've had to abandon a few rules recently and it was difficult to accept but the facts were clear. The world has changed and the sound reasons we came up with those rules have disappeared and you can no longer justify your position. Of course there are those that can't accept it. They just get sidelined and the world moves on without them.

a dipstick is a throw back to a world before sensors. Nice to have perhaps but ultimately unnecessary. I know the level in the Jag is fine because it's not complaining. Every other car I have, I have to get some paper towel, go out in the cold, open the bonnet, get my hands dirty and check it manually. Which is really the better Way? It's like tyres. None of my cars have TPMS. Now I know it's not perfect technology but the fact remains, if you get a slow puncture and you have it, you'll know well before I will.
It's not just the ability to see the state of the oil, I find it useful for doing a "sniff" test to detect diesel in the oil, the electronic oil level is just another technology for technologies sake and offers little if any benefit. Phil
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's not just the ability to see the state of the oil, I find it useful for doing a "sniff" test to detect diesel in the oil, the electronic oil level is just another technology for technologies sake and offers little if any benefit. Phil
I find the electronic gauge abit vague I only reason I knew I had fuel in the oil was because it showed full bars when I know after the last oil change @ 6.4ltrs it was saying OK at 3/4 bars. The problem is that it was showing full bars and OK when I had 700mls extra in the oil so it didn't warn me that it was overfilled.

So I'm stuck with it but want to know do I take the reading cold sat overnight or 30 mins after hot engine is shut down ?
 

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I really don't see the problem. This is the second car I've had without a dipstick and in over 200000 miles no harm has come to either car.
if there is a problem with the level being too high, it will pop up a warning just as it will if you need to add a litre. If it says nothing, do nothing. It's fine. The idea that you can check the oil condition from the dipstick is a fallacy. Oil can look pretty dirty and still provide perfectly good lubrication. None of us are capable of telling from a small sample. You need a lab and those that have sent a sample of 18,000 mile fully synthetic oil to a lab have been told it's good for another 10k. Oil tech has improved dramatically in the last 20 years.
This is the same myth that has Americans running to their "lube shops" every 6000 miles to have their fully synthetic clean oil replaced.

I work in IT. It's an industry that forces you to reassess your long held certainties every few years as the next revolution rolls through. I've had to abandon a few rules recently and it was difficult to accept but the facts were clear. The world has changed and the sound reasons we came up with those rules have disappeared and you can no longer justify your position. Of course there are those that can't accept it. They just get sidelined and the world moves on without them.

a dipstick is a throw back to a world before sensors. Nice to have perhaps but ultimately unnecessary. I know the level in the Jag is fine because it's not complaining. Every other car I have, I have to get some paper towel, go out in the cold, open the bonnet, get my hands dirty and check it manually. Which is really the better Way? It's like tyres. None of my cars have TPMS. Now I know it's not perfect technology but the fact remains, if you get a slow puncture and you have it, you'll know well before I will.
I agree with all of this and would like to add that although I did have teething problems with TPMS, I have a front tyre that leaks air due to corrosion on the front wheel. I have been to a few places to try to get it fixed but every 300ish miles the TPMS will tell me when it needs pumping up (I think it goes down to 25) while I try to find someone to resolve it!
 

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Aircraft have had oil quantity indication systems for well over 30 years but they still have dip-sticks and sight glasses. They also have tyre pressure indication systems but pressures are still checked manually. Why? Simply because the oil quantity sensors occasionally fail and there needs to be a back-up so that we can be sure there is sufficient oil. Likewise tyre pressure sensors, we need to be sure they tyres are really properly inflated, not just indicating that way.

On level ground a dip-stick is infallible, not so an oil level sensor. You can't see water in the oil on a dashboard display but you will see it on a dip-stick, likewise fuel in the oil.

JBerks experience of 200,000 miles without a problem is statistically insignificant, though I am pleased that he hasn't had a problem. I can't tell you how many times I read download data from aircraft and decided that it was spurious so unfortunately the absence of a warning isn't evidence that all is well, the presence of a warning is only evidence that something has been detected, not that what the indication says is correct. Over time one learns which indications can be trusted and which can't but oil quantity indication definitely comes in the latter category.
 

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Aircraft have had oil quantity indication systems for well over 30 years but they still have dip-sticks and sight glasses. They also have tyre pressure indication systems but pressures are still checked manually. Why? Simply because the oil quantity sensors occasionally fail and there needs to be a back-up so that we can be sure there is sufficient oil. Likewise tyre pressure sensors, we need to be sure they tyres are really properly inflated, not just indicating that way.

On level ground a dip-stick is infallible, not so an oil level sensor. You can't see water in the oil on a dashboard display but you will see it on a dip-stick, likewise fuel in the oil.

JBerks experience of 200,000 miles without a problem is statistically insignificant, though I am pleased that this he hasn't had a problem. I can't tell you how many times I read download data from aircraft and decided that it was spurious so unfortunately the absence of a warning isn't evidence that all is well, the presence of a warning is only evidence that something has been detected, not that what the indication says is correct. Over time one learns which indications can be trusted and which can't but oil quantity indication definitely comes in the latter category.
I can see why the checks for an aircraft are so rigorous (how many back up computers do they have for system failures?) since consequences for failure in the air would be dire!

However within the context of XF Jaguar cars I would contend that JBerks experience is not that statistically insignificant. As you said they are only indications. It's a car on the road not a plane in the air.
 

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I can see why the checks for an aircraft are so rigorous (how many back up computers do they have for system failures?) since consequences for failure in the air would be dire!

However within the context of XF Jaguar cars I would contend that JBerks experience is not that statistically insignificant. As you said they are only indications. It's a car on the road not a plane in the air.
So an engine failure at 70 on a motorway is benign then? Or a tyre departing the rim at speed because it was under-inflated? Sorry but the only real difference is that a car can be got to the side of the road quicker than a 747 can be landed, otherwise a significant failure is still potentially life threatening and I would prefer to avoid it.

Yes 200,000 miles in two cars is statistically insignificant, I have no idea how many XFs have been built but it is in the 10s of thousands so if we assume just 10,000, two out of 10,000 is a 0.02% sample.

I think you may be surprised that, with the exception of flying controls, there are usually only two computers. Flying controls usually have three.

A wide bodied aircraft on long-haul routes will fly 4,000 hours per year, a car might manage 400 but many will do far less. Reliability of car parts is well below that of aircraft parts even though the operating environment is less arduous. Personally I would have more faith in a Trent oil quantity indication than one on a car. If you want to trust the sensors, be my guest but I will continue to trust a dip-stick over a sensor. Just one reason why I don't drive a Jag.
 

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So an engine failure at 70 on a motorway is benign then? Or a tyre departing the rim at speed because it was under-inflated? Sorry but the only real difference is that a car can be got to the side of the road quicker than a 747 can be landed, otherwise a significant failure is still potentially life threatening and I would prefer to avoid it.

Yes 200,000 miles in two cars is statistically insignificant, I have no idea how many XFs have been built but it is in the 10s of thousands so if we assume just 10,000, two out of 10,000 is a 0.02% sample.

I think you may be surprised that, with the exception of flying controls, there are usually only two computers. Flying controls usually have three.

A wide bodied aircraft on long-haul routes will fly 4,000 hours per year, a car might manage 400 but many will do far less. Reliability of car parts is well below that of aircraft parts even though the operating environment is less arduous. Personally I would have more faith in a Trent oil quantity indication than one on a car. If you want to trust the sensors, be my guest but I will continue to trust a dip-stick over a sensor. Just one reason why I don't drive a Jag.
Thanks for your reply. Yes I was aware that flying controls had three computers. However statistically how likely is it that an car engine failure will occur at 70mph? Although it would be lovely to live in a perfect world where every eventuality is catered for and the risk is 0% surely that is unrealistic. Do we have figures for oil levels sensor failures and are they statistically relevant? I respect you for your view of not driving a Jag because it has no dipstick, but logically dipsticks will be phased out in the future, so you won't be able to drive at all... The difference between a plane and a car is massive. Is it still a requirement for the pilot to check the aircraft physically by walking around it before they fly it? How many of us do that with our cars before every journey (including a trip to the shops and back requiring at least 2 checks)?
 

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However statistically how likely is it that an car engine failure will occur at 70mph? Although it would be lovely to live in a perfect world where every eventuality is catered for and the risk is 0% surely that is unrealistic. Do we have figures for oil levels sensor failures and are they statistically relevant?
That is somewhat irrelevant, an engine failure at any speed in an automatic is potentially catastrophic because you can't coast.

I respect you for your view of not driving a Jag because it has no dipstick, but logically dipsticks will be phased out in the future, so you won't be able to drive at all...
Guess how Jaguar check the oil level in engines on the production line, I'll give you a clue, they won't let you have one. They use a dipstick down the oil evacuation tube! They won't be phased out because there is no other way, without power, to confirm the oil level. A dip-stick is only a calibrated stick and you can make your own easily enough but Jaguar should provide one. Even electric cars will have oil, in the gear boxes and possibly the motors and said oil level/s will need to be checked, power off.

The difference between a plane and a car is massive. Is it still a requirement for the pilot to check the aircraft physically by walking around it before they fly it? How many of us do that with our cars before every journey (including a trip to the shops and back requiring at least 2 checks)?
Actually, if the same crew is bringing the aircraft back the check at the out station is an abbreviated one, using the various quantity indicators, if the work.
 
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