Jaguar Forum banner
21 - 40 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Ah right, thanks.
The thing is though, I don't trust the values in the iCarsoft device, at all.
I mean, it's fine to see the values changing, but there are heaps of wrong values in it.
For example the gear ratio shows as 65535 (which is likely an integer overflow error), the barometric pressure is 150kPa, my milage shows up as 85,000,000km (likely a conversion error since it's 85,000km), one of my module voltages is 44.1V, my transmission oil temp reads -40°C (which is likely a conversion error from Fahrenheit to Celsius), (and it reads 17,000°C on the next line, and 0 somewhere else) etc.

View attachment 50514

I think it's likely that the guys writing the software for this probably didn't always remember to "carry the 1", since it's unlikely that there's so many things wrong with my car..
I get same readings on my ELM Bluetooth device least for barometric pressure and control module, have you tried plugging one of those vaccum tester gauges in gives you a accurate look at what condition engine is in , could rule out mechanical issue they about £20 most tool stores sell them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
One of these tells you alot about engine condition like if its got boost leak , exhaust restriction, burnt or sticking valves etc if engine is healthy it should pull steady in the green zone around 20 inhg , plugged mine in last week chasing a fault my car was pulling 21 inhg steady so healthy but sounds rough as a dog , I am putting this down to the oil I put in at last service I used that motul 5w30 ford spec economy stuff it's real thin compared to other 5w30 I've used so reckon this is why my engine sounds real clattery .
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
Unfortunately you are misunderstanding the fundamental differences between how a petrol and diesel engine works. The OP has a diesel, a turbo diesel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Unfortunately you are misunderstanding the fundamental differences between how a petrol and diesel engine works. The OP has a diesel, a
The video I watched before I brought it said they work on any engine , just had a look they don't like you state work on diesel due to not creating vacuum? That been said why is my 2.0 turbo diesel pulling 21 inhg like a good petrol engine does ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
The video I watched before I brought it said they work on any engine , just had a look they don't like you state work on diesel due to not creating vacuum? That been said why is my 2.0 turbo diesel pulling 21 inhg like a good petrol engine does ?
Yea, I'm a bit confused about this too. If you look on the previous page, the images I posted show that when the car is running well it creates a vacuum when revved (down to 91kPa) and the maximum pressure was basically atmospheric pressure (100kPa), but when the car was running bad didn't have a vacuum when revved, and instead had "pressure" up to 127kPa..

It also took me a long time to figure out hat the MAP sensor is called a "boost pressure sensor" when trying to buy one online, but it's called a MAP in the workshop manual, and the ones for the 2.2D (long think sensor with the rubber hose connection) seem to be really rare
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Yea, I'm a bit confused about this too. If you look on the previous page, the images I posted show that when the car is running well it creates a vacuum when revved (down to 91kPa) and the maximum pressure was basically atmospheric pressure (100kPa), but when the car was running bad didn't have a vacuum when revved, and instead had "pressure" up to 127kPa..

It also took me a long time to figure out hat the MAP sensor is called a "boost pressure sensor" when trying to buy one online, but it's called a MAP in the workshop manual, and the ones for the 2.2D (long think sensor with the rubber hose connection) seem to be really rare
I've checked live data on mine with my Bluetooth ELM and icarsoft tool it's different every time I plug it in my maf sensor readings bounce up and down , fitting new genuine sensor it does the same and I have no boost leaks I've checked many times, my MAP readings look OK but I don't get that barometric reading it's always around 150 KPA regardless of altitude assuming that's what it's reading , I am a bit dubious of some of the readings these scan tools give out as mine will give say 13.5 V for battery but if I put a multimeter on it will be closer to 14V , according to this mornings battery reading it dropped below 10 V when cranking which could explain the sluggish starting on my car , but did it really drop that low .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Yea, I'm a bit confused about this too. If you look on the previous page, the images I posted show that when the car is running well it creates a vacuum when revved (down to 91kPa) and the maximum pressure was basically atmospheric pressure (100kPa), but when the car was running bad didn't have a vacuum when revved, and instead had "pressure" up to 127kPa..

It also took me a long time to figure out hat the MAP sensor is called a "boost pressure sensor" when trying to buy one online, but it's called a MAP in the workshop manual, and the ones for the 2.2D (long think sensor with the rubber hose connection) seem to be really rare
Funny you mention pressure if I pull a vaccum line off mine after car has been drove a while it's like cracking the valve on tyre air gushes out , carnt remember it doing that before or if it should I was under the impression vacuum pulled to operate actuator etc , have to have a look up see if that's right
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I've checked live data on mine with my Bluetooth ELM and icarsoft tool it's different every time I plug it in my maf sensor readings bounce up and down , fitting new genuine sensor it does the same and I have no boost leaks I've checked many times, my MAP readings look OK but I don't get that barometric reading it's always around 150 KPA regardless of altitude assuming that's what it's reading , I am a bit dubious of some of the readings these scan tools give out as mine will give say 13.5 V for battery but if I put a multimeter on it will be closer to 14V , according to this mornings battery reading it dropped below 10 V when cranking which could explain the sluggish starting on my car , but did it really drop that low .
Ah right, it's interesting to find someone else here with the iCarsoft tool. I did find the barometric pressure reading a bit strange alright, 150kPa,I wasn't sure if it was an issue with my car, or the specific tool.

Here are a few of my other strange readings, I wonder if you have similar values?

Light Communication Device World Portable communications device Gadget


Product World Rectangle Line Font
Font Gadget Rectangle Display device Electronic device
Communication Device Gadget Font Portable communications device Mobile device


One of my control module values also reads about 44V, and 0V somewhere else, but I just don't know if it's an issue with my car or the device..
I think most of the faulty values above are in the TCM data streams..
And my EGR position value never really seems to change from 0mm either, but I can definitely hear it working on the car..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
So I removed the MAP/Exhaust pressure sensor/Boost pressure sensor/and whatever names it's given (part number: 0261230172), and gave it a cleanout with brake cleaner, and I cleaned out the rubber tube connecting it to the EGR, but it didn't improve anything. The tube and the sensor did seem to have a little bit of soot in them, but not blocked up or anything.

So, the car runs fine, with wire disconnected from MAP, and the tube (to the EGR) connected.
It runs a little rough with the wire connected, but the tube disconnected.
It runs fine with both disconnected. (Possibly the engine/ECU is compensating for it)
And it runs bad with both the wire and the tube connected.

This is the thing I'm talking about in the image below, because I've seen people on other forums saying that the MAP is down further below the EGR. Unless there's another one there?

Land vehicle Vehicle Motor vehicle Car Black


At one stage there was a fair bit of dirty smoke coming from the tube while I had it disconnected, just for a second or two, likely the EGR doing its thing.
And so now I'm kind of thinking the sensor is fine, and that the issue is a bit of a blockage/leak somewhere, or maybe the EGR is not working correctly.
Might be time to just rip out the EGR, and maybe the intake manifold, and give everything a good look over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,596 Posts
The video I watched before I brought it said they work on any engine , just had a look they don't like you state work on diesel due to not creating vacuum? That been said why is my 2.0 turbo diesel pulling 21 inhg like a good petrol engine does ?
Not sure where you are measuring the vacuum, but there is (out of necessity) a vacuum pump on these engines
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
I think they are measuring vacuum on a vacuum line that will be connected to the vacuum pump - at least we know that works!

@Nick78 if you have a problem too, please can you start a separate thread as it is getting confusing with you referring to your car and, with respect, giving out some not entirely accurate advice. Outline your exact issue, what you have done and what car you have and I will be happy to try and help.

OP @JagJoe2651 what year is your car that looks like a later EGR set up?
The issue with your scan tool is it is for Landrover, I have an iCarsoft product with Jag software on it (as a back up to my professional grade stuff) and it worked fine on my X-type and my XK-8. As I suggested go back to the first menu on the tool and select OBD2 diagnostics where you don't need to tell it what car you have. You should get more sensible data.

I fact looking at it if I had known/spotted the year I would have leant towards the EGR being an issue - if it is the type I am thinking of they have a throttle on them that closes off the intake to generate vacuum that sucks the exhaust through. I posted a pic somewhere...

EDIT Found it :

EGR.jpg


See the "Vacuum actuator for throttle" make sure that lever can move either it's jammed, loose, the actuator is broken or I suspect your MAP sensor is misreporting so the throttle is being closed when it should not be. This would account for the MAF bouncing around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nicam49 and jimbo20

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Not sure where you are measuring the vacuum, but there is (out of necessity) a vacuum pump on these engines
Got my wires crossed Jim as video I watched stated they worked on all cars , yes got two solenoids under battery and a pump on side of block where main stat housing is , I just plugged it into the vaccum hose going to turbo actuator and it registered 21 inhg indicating a good engine , but don't know if that means anything with it being diesel. One question I've got is when you get a battery reading on scan tool where is it taking it from battery or ECU as mine is indicating its dropping below 10V on cranking but I get a higher reading direct from battery with multimeter, reckon its the cause of my intermittent starring problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
I think they are measuring vacuum on a vacuum line that will be connected to the vacuum pump - at least we know that works!

@Nick78 if you have a problem too, please can you start a separate thread as it is getting confusing with you referring to your car and, with respect, giving out some not entirely accurate advice. Outline your exact issue, what you have done and what car you have and I will be happy to try and help.

OP @JagJoe2651 what year is your car that looks like a later EGR set up?
The issue with your scan tool is it is for Landrover, I have an iCarsoft product with Jag software on it (as a back up to my professional grade stuff) and it worked fine on my X-type and my XK-8. As I suggested go back to the first menu on the tool and select OBD2 diagnostics where you don't need to tell it what car you have. You should get more sensible data.

I fact looking at it if I had known/spotted the year I would have leant towards the EGR being an issue - if it is the type I am thinking of they have a throttle on them that closes off the intake to generate vacuum that sucks the exhaust through. I posted a pic somewhere...

EDIT Found it :

View attachment 50648
Ok will do thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
Pic of the throttle section
Gas Automotive wheel system Automotive tire Personal protective equipment Bicycle part
 
  • Like
Reactions: JagJoe2651

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
So, I pulled out the EGR valve, and the intake manifold, to give them a good cleaning, and just thought I'd throw up an image of it as I found it interesting:

Eyewear Wood Screwdriver Fashion accessory Personal protective equipment


I ran a water through the valve after cleaning the interior, to get rid of the gunk, but it wasn't until I took the cover off the gear/solenoid area later that I found water, and everything else, can get down into this area of the valve.
When I opened this I found it soaked, and several parts of it corroded, such as the copper tracers on the cover at the bottom of the image.

This was also the only way I could open the "exhaust" part of the valve and clean inside it, by rotating the gears and retracting the plunger. There was also a lot of gunk inside the exhaust part that I couldn't see:

Sports equipment Wood Automotive tire Gas Automotive wheel system


It's still not fully clean, the gunk just seems to keep on coming! But I'll get there eventually.

There's a lot going on with these EGR valves alright. Seems like they have the exhaust plunger (above), the MAP/boost sensor, the butterfly valve operated by a vacuum, and a position sensor for the butterfly valve.

A lot to potentially go wrong..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,456 Posts
Sit that in a bucket of diesel for 10 minutes and then agitate with a brush and most of that crud will be gone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
OP @JagJoe2651 what year is your car that looks like a later EGR set up?
The issue with your scan tool is it is for Landrover, I have an iCarsoft product with Jag software on it (as a back up to my professional grade stuff) and it worked fine on my X-type and my XK-8. As I suggested go back to the first menu on the tool and select OBD2 diagnostics where you don't need to tell it what car you have. You should get more sensible data.

I fact looking at it if I had known/spotted the year I would have leant towards the EGR being an issue - if it is the type I am thinking of they have a throttle on them that closes off the intake to generate vacuum that sucks the exhaust through. I posted a pic somewhere...

See the "Vacuum actuator for throttle" make sure that lever can move either it's jammed, loose, the actuator is broken or I suspect your MAP sensor is misreporting so the throttle is being closed when it should not be. This would account for the MAF bouncing around.
What do you mean the software is for Landrover? I mean, when I plug in I can select Jaguar, and select my exact model of car, is this Landrover software, and/or is there a different software that I can get for the device?

My car is 2010 (the 2009 2.2D 6-speed automatic, facelift model ).

When I removed the EGR, all the actuators seemed to move quite freely, but the exhaust part sometimes seemed a bit slow to spring back, but it might have been because it was disassembled, with the cover removed, and so maybe the gears weren't fully held down.
But after reassembling it, cleaned, and the intake manifold cleaned, the car seems a bit better. I'd say maybe 50-60% better but it's still a little bit wonky every now and again, like it doesn't quite know what gear to go into some of the time, and it has the odd little "stuttery" fit.

I didn't have a spare set of gaskets for the intake manifold, so I had to throw the old ones back on, but I have them a good cleaning and have a new set on order.

I think I might try blocking the EGR as the next step, to perhaps rule out the possibility that it's getting too much "bad" air, and I think I'll check all the pipes to make sure there isn't a leak somewhere. And perhaps I'll have a look at the intercooler when the bloody rain goes away, and see if it's gunked up..

It's kind of strange, the problem initially was with the car cutting out after starting up, then after a few days that went away and it was idling rough. Then a few days later it was idling OK most of the time and the problem was rough running around 1000-2000rpm. And, if anything, now it's slightly rough around 2000-3000rpm.
It almost seems like the problem is happening at higher air levels over time, when the car is getting "more" air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Sit that in a bucket of diesel for 10 minutes and then agitate with a brush and most of that crud will be gone.
I'll definitely have to remember to do this the next time!
For some reason I always forget the power of fuel for these dirty jobs, and I always end up making a right mess in the house and the yard (and in the shower once!) and make everything much harder for myself..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
The earlier icarsoft LR units were not that good on Jag. The later Jag specific or the "choose any 10 car brands" were more accurate.

Did you try manually testing the vac actuator - pipe and suck! Also stick a meter on ohms across the 2 terminals for the throttle and make sure there is feedback ie open/closed circuit depending on the position you suck it into.
Also suck/blow into the pipe from the vac solenoid make sure that is not leaking.

Be careful blocking that EGR off, if the ECU closes the throttle and there is no exhaust able to flow, a large vacuum could develop and bad things may happen - especially if there is an issue with the feedback mechanism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The earlier icarsoft LR units were not that good on Jag. The later Jag specific or the "choose any 10 car brands" were more accurate.

Did you try manually testing the vac actuator - pipe and suck! Also stick a meter on ohms across the 2 terminals for the throttle and make sure there is feedback ie open/closed circuit depending on the position you suck it into.
Also suck/blow into the pipe from the vac solenoid make sure that is not leaking.

Be careful blocking that EGR off, if the ECU closes the throttle and there is no exhaust able to flow, a large vacuum could develop and bad things may happen - especially if there is an issue with the feedback mechanism.
Mine is the LRII, not sure if that qualifies as one of the older ones?

The vac actuator seems fine, I didn't suck on it, but I manually closed it on the inside, then held my thumb over the end of the tube, and it definitely kept suction alright.
I can also hear it working on the car, especially when I shut the car off, and it does have that "tinny" flapping sound you'd expect from this component, but I haven't been able to hear the motor on the exhaust side; but even still, I suppose it could be partly working but I'd never know if it was fully working. But I've never seen the EGR side it stuck half open or anything.

Thanks, I'll try those other things too. I might also disconnect the EGR side and see if I can see the plunger moving. And I might take a run through the steps in the workshop manual too.

I kind of miss the Lexia3 setup I had for my old Peugeot, with Peugeot Planet, where you could test every component and watch or listen to them activating..
 
21 - 40 of 48 Posts
Top