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Sadly the CPS will no doubt jump on the two who restrained him and seek to make an example lest others decide vigilante justice is a good idea. It's a difficult balance to strike as many have lost faith in the police, and I'm sure the car owners would be told "sorry it's gone, just claim on insurance, here's a crime number". However if the public feels at liberty to deliver punishment beatings to anyone they feel deserves it, where do we stop?
 

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Citizens Arrest has to be done with reasonable force the same reasonable force the police are supposed to use

If this arrest had been carried out by the police we all know how this would end with both officers back in there job with no punishment needed other than a reprimand


Anyone think these two men will be afforded the same out come ?
 

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Just going on the headlines I say tough titty to the lowlife that nicked the car. I just wonder how two blokes just happened to be about at 3.15 a.m. to make an arrest. If the scrotes want my car they will have to break in to my house, come up some squeaky stairs and take the keys out of my bedside cabinet without awaking me or Mrs.CC. Then they will have to deal with a grumpy 6' 2" 16st bloke with the thick end of a snooker cue if he's lucky. If he's unlucky, it's Mrs.CC on the case which I wouldn't recommend.
 

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Its excessive force if the thief has been killed in the process of a Citizens Arrest unless there was some previous unforeseen
Medical Condition suffered by the thief or the thief was armed .
Jail the vigilantes if guilty , you can't dispense summary justice whatever the crime .
 

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Policing by consent works on the principle that wrong doers know there is a high probability of being caught. As soon as the police state that they won't follow-up reports of certain crimes the whole system is in danger of breaking down.
 

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Its excessive force if the thief has been killed in the process of a Citizens Arrest unless there was some previous unforeseen
Medical Condition suffered by the thief or the thief was armed .
Jail the vigilantes if guilty , you can't dispense summary justice whatever the crime .
BANG!!! Stop, armed Police. Or should that be t'other way around? If anyone enters my property uninvited, they will have to face the consequences. I'm 65 and not in great shape but, nobody but nobody will violate my home. If I die in the process, I don't care as long as I get a good one in first. The scrotes get all the law on their side. Look at Ben Stokes. He saved two gay blokes from a beating and he got charged. Unbelievable.
 

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Virginia law is what is required.

Deadly force can be used to protect your family on your own property. I would not have hesitated for one second to use it in the event of a break in.

The joke used to be that if you shot someone breaking in and they managed to crawl out of your home, you only had to drag them back on your property to be safe within the law.

In the Blue Ridge area we lived, there was a zero incidence of break ins.

Tony
 

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Or they did not do it again.

If any their broke into my house they have to run the gaunlet of my cats, one of whom (Fatso) thinks he is a dog and really bites people he does not know (without any barking to warn anybody that he is on the way).
He bit my wife on the hand when she got between him and the chickens cheese and she had to have a week of work before he was addopted by the family.

He is now tame with us but other people have to careful.

If they come in the garden then there is the Batum ****eral (Godzilla) who attacks anybody including me. He looks so sweet as he slowly moves up to you pecking at grass and then when you are not watching he is halfway up you leg with beak and claws attacking.

We have signs warning people that they have rights of the house and garden and enter at your own risk
 

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If they come in the garden then there is the Batum ****eral (Godzilla) who attacks anybody including me. He looks so sweet as he slowly moves up to you pecking at grass and then when you are not watching he is halfway up you leg with beak and claws attacking.
****erels and nasty and devious things.

We used to have one that lay in wait around evening meal time and just when you thought you were safe, he would attack. I know he is just protecting his girls and also wanted first dabs at the food, but there is a limit.

He was not long on this world.

Tony
 
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As regards intruders in your home, anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary - even if you use something to hand as a weapon. The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. You don't have to wait to be attacked. If the person dies it is only lawful if you have acted in reasonable self-defence.

The situation is different when chasing someone as you are no longer acting in self-defence. You can use reasonable force to recover your property or make a citizen's arrest but the same degree of force may not be reasonable. The law does not allow grossly disproportionate force which includes kicking or punching repeatedly.
 

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As regards intruders in your home, anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary - even if you use something to hand as a weapon. The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. You don't have to wait to be attacked. If the person dies it is only lawful if you have acted in reasonable self-defence.

The situation is different when chasing someone as you are no longer acting in self-defence. You can use reasonable force to recover your property or make a citizen's arrest but the same degree of force may not be reasonable. The law does not allow grossly disproportionate force which includes kicking or punching repeatedly.
The whole problem with reasonable force is that the intruders are probably younger and fitter, carrying weapons and very happy to use them.

How does a 70 tear old widow use reasonable force? The wording should be "use whatever force and instruments required to protect yourself and your family".

Anything else is just saying the criminals have the rights, the victims have none. But there are many who believe that the rights of the criminals are more important than the rights of the victim. We have seen that so often.

Tony
 

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I think the "reasonable force" I would have employed in this case would have been to trap all his fingers in the car door of the vehicle that he was trying to steal. Then put any severed ends down the drain.

Killing him is not on. No suffering.
 

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What force does the law allow?
In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act "honestly and instinctively" in the heat of the moment. "Fine judgements" over the level of force used are not expected, says the Crown Prosecution Service.
What this means in practice is that someone can claim they attacked in self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in hindsight they were clearly wrong.
Victims do not have to wait to be attacked if they are in their home and fear for themselves or others. These guidelines also apply if someone, in the spur of the moment, picks up an item to use as a weapon. The law very clearly says that a householder is not expected to weigh up the arguments for and against in the heat of the moment - but they have to show that their actions were reasonable in the moment.

What is the situation if the intruder dies?
It is still lawful to act in reasonable self-defence, even if the intruder dies as a result. However, prosecution could result from "very excessive and gratuitous force", such as attacking someone who is unconscious. For instance, the CPS decided not to prosecute one woman who snatched a baseball bat from an intruder and smashed him over the head. Had the woman continued to beat the man to a pulp, after he had already fallen and posed no threat, that would probably be considered as unlawful.

more info can be read here > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504
 

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Thing is, in the 2nd case, would anyone reasonably be able to be expected to stop hitting them once they are down? They might get up again after all, before the Police got there. So another "clout" for good measure I think would be justified.

I was told a long time ago... If I ever used a shotgun to stop someone in my house, put a round into the ceiling as well. "I fired a warning shot, they kept coming". Nothing to prove that this wasn't done afterwards.

Make sure the "one into the ceiling" doesn't have a bedroom above it...
 

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I am not a criminal civil and human rights fan and would have no hesitation in shooting any intruder in the knee caps. And yes I am a good enough shot to hit a moving body in the knees (if I legally owned a gun of course). I could not give a toss if I accidentally put a round in his/her head killing them.

At 70 and with certain medical issues, I would probably get off with a few years in an open prison. Well worth the satisfaction of dealing with some low life scum.

Too many rights for the criminal and no protection for the innocent. Our laws are simply not fit for purpose and deliberately vague giving the criminal all of the advantage.

I sincerely wish it were legal (after very heavy background and regular checks as well as safety tests on the owners handling of the weapon) to own a hand gun in the UK. I know this will irritate certain members but that is my firm opinion.

Tony
 

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This is why Mrs G doesn't want me to have a hand gun in the house. She knows I would do the same. And my aim is bad enough that they would lose their nuts, not knees...
 
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