For full disclosure - Edd China works with/for Randstad/Terraclean

29564 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Ian D, Jun 2, 2012

Stumpy

Discussion Starter · May 27, 2012

Hi

I think anyone considering the use of the Terraclean system, based on the Wheeler Dealer TV programme, should be aware that Edd China has a vested interest in this product/company.

It may well work, actually it would be nice if it does, but please do your own research first. :!:

No one has answered how long before the effects are lost??

The company obviously knows little about Jaguars (or chooses not to), as the reply via BuckMR2 to my post on another thread proves.

Lots of so called miracle products come and go and make some people very rich, before they are discredited.

Lets hope this is not one of them

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

BuckMR2

· #2 · May 27, 2012

As already posted on another thread Edd China has an interest but didnt join Terraclean until AFTER he had used it on the XK8 on the program and not before.
Not suprising he did given its effectiveness which is getting momentum on my results,the XK8 results,rick63 petrol X tyoe results (ZERO HC's on that one)
Regarding how often it should be used Subaru in Canada are offering it as part of an ANNUAL service (again as already posted) and Ford and Chevrolet over there are about to follow suit
I guess results on longevity would depend on how much cold driving you do etc
Keep the results coming in

Stumpy

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 27, 2012

So he used the show as his job application then!??

Very profitable whichever way you look at it!

Independant? Sorry no I don't think so.

I am also starting to question your (BuckMR2) independance, regarding this product, after reading the way you stand up for and support it!

BuckMR2

· #4 · May 27, 2012

Stumpy said:
The company obviously knows little about Jaguars (or chooses not to), as the reply via BuckMR2 to my post on another thread proves.

It proves absolutely nothing and you have never answered my reply on the other thread.
There is an easy way to see...get the emissions tested before being fully warmed up,once fully wamed up and after treatment.....simples!

BuckMR2

· #5 · May 27, 2012

I am just one of the people who have used it and posted my results.
Rick63 posted his and was that impressed will be getting his diesel done too
Others will be following
All independant

BuckMR2

· #6 · May 27, 2012

Stumpy said:
So he used the show as his job application then!??

The show was recorded in January....months before it was on TV

BuckMR2

· #7 · May 27, 2012

Stumpy said:
The company obviously knows little about Jaguars (or chooses not to)

You obviously havent visited Terracleans website....where they show you it with a....
wait for it.....
wait for it....

wait for it....

wait for it...

a Jaguar!

kg7657

· #8 · May 27, 2012

Hi all,
I thought that I would add some areas that others may wish to consider - not wanting to take sides of course but with my own experiences of engine cleaning products. Just to give some context, I am an Engineer with (over) 25 years experience with building race engines and the like. I realise that this does not make me an expert in cleaning products or this particular cleaning system. Anyway I thought that I would conduct my own little experiment of my car - 1996 Nikasil XK8 with a 100,000 mile engine. I decided to use a MOT emission gas analyser and conduct two measurements. Stage 1 before treatment and stage 2 after. Here are the results:
Stage 1 11 May 2012 Fast idle test
CO: 0.062
HC: 25ppm
Lambda: 1.019
Results: Not bad for an old girl and passes the standard MOT emissions test.
Stage 2 24 May 2012 Fast idle test
CO: 0.049
HC: 16ppm
Lambda 1.002
Results: Improved and again an easy pass.

Mathematically a considerable improvement - but in reality less so.

So I hear you all asking what did I do? Well I used a proprietary cleaning product and higher octane petrol between the tests. I'm not going to say which one - and it doesn't really matter because most are Methanol based with various small compound additives. Anyway I'm quite happy to do this for a considerable fee - or you could probably do this yourself for around £8.50.
A wise mechanic once said to me that if you clean spark plugs and throttle bodies, check for induction and exhaust air leaks, then your engine will probably stay within tolerances for a long, long time.
I have looked at the Terraclean web site regarding results for Jaguars but I could only see reference to results for a Diesel - I'm sure you are all aware a smoke test is different to the above results. Diesels do also of course run very different emission systems from petrol cars (PAF etc). Anyway, I don't want to take any sides but I think I'll keep doing what I am doing as it suits my car well (and is considerably cheaper).
Regards to all.

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BuckMR2

· #9 · May 27, 2012

Ricks is a petrol, I assumed the Terracleans Canadian website was also as I didnt realise they had diesel versions?
I wouldnt put anything in my well looked after car without first asking questions which I did,especially with a 2000+ mile trip over to the continent coming up.
Im the first to be cynical of many products like certain additives/snake oil which merely smooth flow by putting an oily coating over the carbon rather than physically removing it.The results together with Edd China backing it prior to his investment in it which shows his belief in it and the fact it has been developed for 15 years and used by Subaru in their annual services in Canada.

Stumpy said:
I haven't seen the whole program but it is fairly well known that if you have an XK8 that would fail the MOT on emissions it will usually pass OK when fully warmed up!

Im still awaiting the emissions results from a cold XK8 and a warmed up XK8 from Stumpy as evidence to show his claim having already seen the whole program myself and seen the results on the show.There is a space on the emissions test results to show temp when you get it done.

Just checked my MPG after a run out today and it has also increased and as always the power is an instant kick in the back so already saving money from the money I paid to have the treatment done.Cant wait for the next Santa Pod to what difference there is.As for longevity I am willing to get mine tested at any time in the future (warmed up so a level playing field) as the MOT station is next to my work.Its due an MOT again in Jan so be interesting to see.

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BuckMR2

· #10 · May 27, 2012 (Edited)

kg7657 said:
I am an Engineer with (over) 25 years experience with building race engines and the like.
...
...
I have looked at the Terraclean web site regarding results for Jaguars but I could only see reference to results for a Diesel - I'm sure you are all aware a smoke test is different to the above results

Definately a Jag petrol in the video clip as its a V6

As a race Engineer why dont you strip the engine you have just done, take some pics and then try the terraclean , strip the engine again and report on the difference (shouldnt take you too long..... ;-) ) as an independant to see how it compares with Edd Chinas independant checks he must have done prior to involvement and Terracleans engines that they must have stripped throughout the last 15 yrs of testing

kg7657

· #11 · May 28, 2012

Hi,

Sorry I didn't see the V6 clip - but I'm not sure it provides adiitional evidence? As to stripping engines - what would that achieve in this particular case? The differences are so marginal that they could not be measured by visual inspection. I'm not sure how many bores or combustion chambers you have seen (not being rude, I genuinely don't know) but you wouldn't get a visual difference in such marginal conditions. It is possible that the pintle heads of injectors may change colour and that is where I would look together with their spray patterns. Then again, ultrasonic cleaning would have a similar result.

Just to clarify I'm not disregarding use of 'Terraclean' - but evidential justification to help us all would be useful. If Terraclean could provide a before and after Engineers report using the same engine tested under the same conditions that would be very useful. If it could be a technical report rather than just a series of emission results, then even better.

Just to throw something into the discussion for us to consider in a similar vein - would anyone like to look at the results of water injection systems and their effect upon output emissions. It was always a useful way to develop more power in conjunction with race engines and did also lower emissions. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone for the road though!

cheers all

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BuckMR2

· #12 · May 31, 2012

I emailed Terraclean on their views of your results:-

The Gentleman (kg7657) seems unwilling to state the exact process that he uses to achieve his results. I have attached this document View attachment E15EngineDamage.pdf to highlight the risks of using strong alcohol mixtures with fuels which he implies is the bulk of the process he has used. He also is using a higher octane fuel which will me be more aromatic than aliphatic and therefore produce more not less carbon when burnt.

So to understand a little more about the problems of increasing alcohol proportion of fuel in a running combustion engine ………

In North America, E10 Petrol (containing 10% ethanol, another form of alcohol) is quite common (only their Highest octane premium fuels do not contain ethanol while the rest are minimum 10%) and recently the EPA approved Ethanol blend of 15% and is considering 20%. Many in the industry were concerned of course about the ethanol content and engine damage (valves, carbon build-up, etc..). Now the attached study concludes that many engines in the existing car park would be damaged by E15 and the new US law should be reversed or modified to offer consumers a choice.

Ethanol also causes other fuel related problems. Because its lighter than petrol, you can get phase separation in the fuel tank. The Ethanol sits on top. In addition, Ethanol is used as a way to control Octane as well as lower emissions. But it also creates problems in engines that were not originally designed to run on Ethanol blends. Ethanol is both corrosive and abrasive. The Terraclean fuel service certainly helps undo potential problems caused by its use. Use of ethanol fuels tends to increase carbon build-up on Lambda sensors and catalytic converters.

I have attached the above two graphs that show the results before and after a TerraClean service for the switch rate between MAP request and Lambda response these were recorded independently by Frank Massey at ADS in Preston and show the TerraClean service halving the snap acceleration. I'm not aware of a competitor's product that can independently prove this level of lambda / oxegen sensor cleaning. PLEASE BE AWARE the car tested was a VW AXP engine where the Lambda is inverse i.e. up is lean and down is rich, this is the reverse of usual.

As I understand it UK petrol currently contains 5% Ethanol, but can be up to 10% and that 10% will be the standard in 2013. So the real problems associated with Ethanol in petrol may be just starting in UK. E85 availability is still limited and more prevalent in the Southern USA. Strangely enough, they get a lot of carbon issues in areas like Texas and Florida where Ethanol content is highest and most available!

We stand by the TerraClean product and will happily put its results and long reaching benefits against any alternative treatments.

Also see Welcome to Terraclean website and our facebook and twitter sites to learn more from other TerraClean users on those forums.

Ian D

· #13 · May 31, 2012

At least in Germany we have an E10 95 petrol and super 95 petrol containing no ethanol, which is what I use. As in the handbook it says don't use a petrol containing more than 7% ethanol.

Ian D

· #14 · May 31, 2012 (Edited)

I found this whilst trawling through Google

Solution to the carbon build up - Terraclean? - Page 5 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

good read

This is from 6 years ago, the M5 board seem to know their stuff. From reading that, it seems to me that they run the engine stupidly hot for 20 minutes which gets rid of the carbon build up. The only pics provided were of two dodgy pics of a spark plug and a piston before and after with a 2wk gap in between.

andyps

· #15 · May 31, 2012

Ian D said:
At least in Germany we have an E10 95 petrol and super 95 petrol containing no ethanol, which is what I use. As in the handbook it says don't use a petrol containing more than 7% ethanol.

As something slightly off topic that is a concern as within the next couple of years the plan is that all petrol sold in Europe will have 10% ethanol. What age engine does that relate to?

Doug Cooper

· #16 · May 31, 2012

BuckMR2 said:
I emailed Terraclean on their views of your results:-

Are Terraclean stating that proprietry fuel system cleaners will damage the system?

In relation to ethanol, these links might be of interest:

FBHVC » Blog Archive » Newsletter No. 2 April 2012

British tourists warned over 'damaging' French fuel - Telegraph

There are now additives available which have been tested and approved by the FBHVC: VSPe Power Plus, VSPe and EPS from Millers Oils, and Ethomix from Frost A R T Ltd; Ethanolmate from Flexolite.

scm

· #17 · May 31, 2012

Ian D said:
... in the handbook it says don't use a petrol containing more than 7% ethanol.

My 2004.5 XKR handbook says petrol containing up to 10% ethanol may be used.

P700DEE

· #18 · Jun 1, 2012

"At least in Germany we have an E10 95 petrol and super 95 petrol containing no ethanol,"

What makes you think that ? E10 by definition is 10% Biofuel , usually Ethanol. Quick internet search says Germany had moved to E10 by April 2011 and that 93% of cars would have no problems, shame about the other 3 million cars though !

Ian D

· #19 · Jun 1, 2012

What makes me think that? I live here and says it on the pump!

P700DEE

· #20 · Jun 2, 2012 (Edited)

Well Ian you must be right ! Just that by definition the E in E10 stands for Ethanol, all the web searches say Germany has E10 containing 10% Ethanol.
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