Hydrogen Power Zero Emissions

piman

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Hello Ben,

If I appear negative about current energy developements, it is because I am.

We seem intent on following sources of energy that give little for a lot of input, renewable generation and hydrogen being prime examples. The physical properties of these sources are such that developement simply cannot improve beyond a certain point.
The west steadfastly ignores the energy source that gives a great deal for very little namely nuclear. It is not a complete answer but it has the potential to do agreat deal. It is the one possible way that hydrogen can be made economically but hydrogen is still a nasty gas for many reasons and with the best will in the world, is extremely challenging to use in what it is being proposed for. It may be common but not in it's elemental form, it's always in a compound and is difficult to separate the bond plus it's energy densty is quite low.

Alec
 

stewartw

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It will be a grand day for "nuclear energy" when/if the fusion process (e.g. tokamak) becomes a reliable commercial proposition.
Presently, as I understand it, the energy going in is either more or close to equivalent being produced, so a way to go!
 

Frank

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The initial target for transport, etc. is to reduce emissions which are bad for the environment. Efficiency is of course important, but not essential if the source energy (wind for example) is plentiful and "green". Obviously cradle to grave environmental impacts have to be put into the equation. Manufacturing steel seems to be the biggest energy consumer in both transport manufacture and in wind turbines for example.

If we want to be transported around, build houses, run factories, etc. then energy in will always be more than energy out, can't get away from that.

Once the full life-cycle reduced emissions targets are reached, then I would trade convenience, such as a 5 minute refill for 300+ miles, over generation efficiency.
 

Ben Scott

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I agree on your time needed to refill point Frank. The battery electric crowd are still having fun getting anywhere near 5 minutes and the 300 miles range (only the big batteries are approaching that) and "green" - not when the source of power for the recharge is factored in.
 
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Ben Scott

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Hello Ben,

If I appear negative about current energy developements, it is because I am.

We seem intent on following sources of energy that give little for a lot of input, renewable generation and hydrogen being prime examples. The physical properties of these sources are such that developement simply cannot improve beyond a certain point.
The west steadfastly ignores the energy source that gives a great deal for very little namely nuclear. It is not a complete answer but it has the potential to do agreat deal. It is the one possible way that hydrogen can be made economically but hydrogen is still a nasty gas for many reasons and with the best will in the world, is extremely challenging to use in what it is being proposed for. It may be common but not in it's elemental form, it's always in a compound and is difficult to separate the bond plus it's energy densty is quite low.

Alec
I haven't seen or heard any suggestion of the domestic motor car using nuclear energy for it's power source Alec.
Other than of course solar, but I get the impression that's not quite what you had in mind.
Hydrogen is being used directly, and ways to improve efficiencies to that end are obviously being worked on; as we speak.
Just as a ps - "nasty" is a rather emotive term I don't concur with. As a gas Hydrogen is a gas; not "nasty" or unnasty.
Hydrogen: Colourless, invisible odourless gas.
Would you say Sunshine is nasty because if you stay out midsummer unprotected you may get burnt ?
Maybe we should go back to the horse and cart.
 
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Ben Scott

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Wow. Obviously a fair bit of energy going into Wind power generation.
Staggering (in the sense of amazing) technology.
I once asked ,where do you think it will stop.
Answer: " It won't ".
Here's a snippet of some of NZ's work on Wind power generation. Mostly on land at this stage.

 

Ben Scott

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Some interesting figures on wind turbines: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58704792
For example, one turn of a 14MW generator will power a Tesla Model 3 for over 200 miles!
Ten (10) hours for a battery recharge.
 

Frank

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Ten (10) hours for a battery recharge.
I guess mobile charging vans will become the norm, "a big charge for a small charge" can be their slogan - read it either way around to suit!
 
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