[payno]

Police pepper sprayed then tasered one-legged 93-year-old man who later died, prompting investigation

Questions are being raised over the use of force against Donald Burgess at a care home, who died several weeks later.

news.sky.com

They needed weaponry to deal with a one legged old man in a wheelchair, anyone else feeling despair.

 

[FlatCap]

Its crackers, they are a service now not a force.Hampered by woke bureaucratic paperwork liberalists. They need to be coshing the tossers not the weakest link.Was different in my day

 

[FlatCap]

They are not confrontationally confident individuals, i was a door man, you got to know those who "Had it" by the body language and demeanor, you made your stance accordingly, These coppers are weak and hampered by society,we want policing but dont want anybody to suffer 🤔 so they draw the sanctioned weapons rather then go hands on as society wants to cry foul if ant bruising occurs. £0 years ago, get lairy you were going down the stairs anf if you had any brains it will be different next week. Today the consequences are weak so the liberties come to the fore.

 

[RatPC]

Deleted as the thread doesn't interest me anymore

 

[RatPC]

They are not confrontationally confident individuals, i was a door man, you got to know those who "Had it" by the body language and demeanor, you made your stance accordingly, These coppers are weak and hampered by society,we want policing but dont want anybody to suffer 🤔 so they draw the sanctioned weapons rather then go hands on as society wants to cry foul if ant bruising occurs. £0 years ago, get lairy you were going down the stairs anf if you had any brains it will be different next week. Today the consequences are weak so the liberties come to the fore.

i can count on one hand the number of times i used any of my PPE (other than cuffs) to defend myself.

 

[OBC John]

i can count on one hand the number of times i used any of my PPE (other than cuffs) to defend myself.

I take it from your reply together with your forum name and handle that you're an ex-black rat?

 

[payno]

They looked out for the elderly in my day too,

So that article hits home to me on several levels -

1) I served within the Police for 9 years
2) This is likely officers from my local station

I would love to see the justification and grounds for the use of force from the officers. Humberside Police detail this nicely on their webpage (Use of force | Humberside Police)

When using force officers are governed by the following legislation:

• Section 117 PACE 1984 (when an arrest is made force may be used)
• Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 (officers may use reasonable force in the circumstances to prevent crime)
• Common Law (an officer may use force to protect themselves or another)
• Human Rights Act 1998 (force must always be proportionate, legal, officers are accountable and it must have been necessary)

Don't they have a set of stipulations as and when stun guns can be used, i just don't envision the need to use that and pepper spray on a physically and mentally disabled 90+ person.

 

[mac_doctor]

Edit: Don't bother.

 

[RatPC]

Deleted as the thread doesn't interest me anymore

 

[RatPC]

Deleted as the thread doesn't interest me anymore

 

[payno]

Reading more on this,
The story so far is the officers walked in and within seconds pepper sprayed him and started beating him with their asps and then tazered him, no trying to defuse the situation and calm the very confused old man.
All his neighbours and family describe his as a nonviolent ordinary fella this was not a man who was used to bad behaviour.


Right i am not saying all police are like this as i know full well they are not but lately there is a lot of wrong within our service.

 

[mac_doctor]

Edit: Don't bother.

 

[jberks]

I'm not a copper, but I do have a fair bit of training in security and dealing with armed assailants (healthy homicidal ones, not 93 and stuck in a chair). We are trained, if no risk to life, just run away. Nothing to be gained from tacking an armed person if that armed person can't hurt anyone.
Reality is, you're dealing with a relatively immobile individual with a cold weapon. Hence there is no risk to life if that person is contained (which they were). So, there is no possible valid argument for use of force. I suspect in reality, the officers didn't want to spend the next 4 hours waiting for him to put the knife down and wanted to put an end to the situation quickly. Be that pressure of other calls, end of shift coming up, bad day, whatever.
In truth, patience and time would have resolved it with no need for violence. He was 93 for pete's sake, he'd have nodded off eventually!

 

[payno]

Where?

Telegraph

Of course. Just the sort to start waving a knife at people. I don't think that they fully grasp the changes that dementia can make to a person.

Yep one of my grandmas had dementia and could get quite upset and hands on no one ever beat her when she threw things at us.

"like this"? Guilty, m'lud - no point in a trial.

Always a point to a trial you can't pass sentence without one.

 

[payno]

I'm not a copper, but I do have a fair bit of training in security and dealing with armed assailants (healthy homicidal ones, not 93 and stuck in a chair). We are trained, if no risk to life, just run away. Nothing to be gained from tacking an armed person if that armed person can't hurt anyone.
Reality is, you're dealing with a relatively immobile individual with a cold weapon. Hence there is no risk to life if that person is contained (which they were). So, there is no possible valid argument for use of force. I suspect in reality, the officers didn't want to spend the next 4 hours waiting for him to put the knife down and wanted to put an end to the situation quickly. Be that pressure of other calls, end of shift coming up, bad day, whatever.
In truth, patience and time would have resolved it with no need for violence. He was 93 for pete's sake, he'd have nodded off eventually!

Yes my take on this would have been to get everyone out the room and let him run out of steam, makes you wonder if these were new to the service.

 

[mac_doctor]

Edit: Don't bother.

 

[mac_doctor]

Edit: Don't bother.

 

[Winchester12g]

IMO police brutality will only get worse, not least because of the naivety of the youngsters joining these days. They have zero life experience, don't understand human psychology and think that a taser is the easy way out.

Just wait for the trout-pout posts on TikTok & Facebook: "Got meself a right 'un today! This 74y/o woman called me a whippersnapper so I chucked 'er on the ground, knee in her back and gave her a right tasering! Upvote if you like and I'll do another one tomorra!"

Seriously, the police have lost all respect. Do you remember when you were young how you froze if you saw a copper? Now? I barely notice them for all the good they do - they're useless in my opinion.

 

[payno]

IMO police brutality will only get worse, not least because of the naivety of the youngsters joining these days. They have zero life experience, don't understand human psychology and think that a taser is the easy way out.

Just wait for the trout-pout posts on TikTok & Facebook: "Got meself a right 'un today! This 74y/o woman called me a whippersnapper so I chucked 'er on the ground, knee in her back and gave her a right tasering! Upvote if you like and I'll do another one tomorra!"

Seriously, the police have lost all respect. Do you remember when you were young how you froze if you saw a copper? Now? I barely notice them for all the good they do - they're useless in my opinion.

Can see your point when the police service won't investigate burglaries of the working classes as there belongings are not worth enough for them to be bothering with that tells you there is a big problem.

 

[Winchester12g]

Can see your point when the police service won't investigate burglaries of the working classes as there belongings are not worth enough for them to be bothering with that tells you there is a big problem.

Burglaries? I live in a town where child trafficking has been rife for decades, and still is. They won't even investigate THAT!!