[Jagmaddave]

I own a 1960 mk2 MOD 2.4. It runs very well and has only covered a genuine 30k since new. However every once in a while, not necessarily on every journey, when pulling away in first there is violent shaking as the clutch is let out and the drive taken up. This problem appears to be very intermittent and a local garage could not find anything noticeably wrong with the clutch or brakes. In fact they couldn't reproduce the problem over the few days they had it. Any ideas as to what could be responsible would be greatly appreciated since I need the car to be very reliable when used for my son's wedding in September. As an aside the front subframe mounts were replaced just recently.

 

[dbug]

Welcome to the forum mate

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thank you debug. I realise however that I should have posted on the Mk2 forum. Next time I'll get it right!

 

[Ed Warren]

Welcome to the forum!
Does the judder only happen in first gear? Does the same thing happen in reverse? Is it non existent when pulling away in second? Three possible causes spring to mind. First the most obvious engine is mountings, second gearbox mounting (The large spring under the gearbox} and third oil pick up on the clutch caused through leaking main seal. If it is the seal the symptoms would probably be more pronounced when the engine is hot, and almost non existent when cold! But I would have thought these causes would have been picked up during your searches. The fact the problem is intermittent is puzzling!

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thank you Ed for your response. I think that the problem is particularly accute in first gear but maybe less so in second (although I cannot swear to that being the case). I cannot recall if the problem has arisen when selecting reverse. I did think about oil on the plates,having read up about possible causes, but would that not be a problem all the time? I also thought that since it was so intermittent maybe it had something to do with the overdrive but I can't think what! I need to look up the gearbox mounting issue since I'm not immediately sure what it is. I agree with you that the intermittent aspect is the most strange thing about this. Thanks once again ...... A very puzzled Dave.

 

[Ed Warren]

If it is oil on the clutch, it will be much worse when hot, and a hell of a lot worse in reverse! When the oil gets hot the seal leaks and the clutch plate it becomes sticky, making clutch control in the lower gears a pain (That's my theory anyway) The gearbox mount is a large spring bolted to the underside of the body within a metal frame. I changed ours due to judder and it did improve the problem, but only marginally. I need to change the gearbox oil seal. couple of quid for the seal, but engine out! Outch!

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thanks Ed ........ I am becoming increasingly concerned that whatever the fault and associated remedy turn out to be extracting the engine is becoming ever more likely. I suppose that is why it's very important to be fairly confident of the root cause before undertaking such drastic action.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Mine does this. I have done all the external bits to alleviate it, and have made it better, but not solved.
On my 2.4L Moss box, there was a pin through the peg on the transmission mounting, holding the read mounting spring compressed. Usually done for shipment, and if engine/gearbox removed to keep the bits in place. Removing the pin helped.
New rubber bit on the end of the spring helped. Engine front mountings are good.
Rear engine mounting needs to be tensioned properly.
Other than that, clutch.

 

[Fraser]

Its a hydraulic clutch. No leaks or anything at the slave cylinder ?

The little rear engine mount at the back of the head should be checked, also the gearbox mount. As said here, the gearbox should be free to float up and down on its pin. There is a rubber bush for the pin which can deteriorate, so check this, but not sure if replacements are freely available, although it is probably the same as the XJ6 right through to 1987. If none of this fixes it, it is an engine-out job, because the gearbox cannot be removed separately on these cars - NO ROOM !

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thank you Curmudgeon for your thoughts .......... In your case was the problem intermittent or a more general issue?

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thanks Fraser ................ I'm gradually building up a list of things to get checked. My MOT is coming up so I might get the garage ( CovCats In Coventry) to check some of these points out at the same time. It sounds like having a car lift would be useful to see what maybe going on with the gearbox mounts under the car.

 

[XJ for two]

there was a Technical Bulletin from Jaguar on these Cotter Pins and Washers back in the 1960's.

the Pin and Washer are only used during servicing (removal and refit of transmission), and then they are to be removed, otherwise the pin prevents the transmission spring and the transmission from its normal vertical travel. But mechanics left them in place even though the Shop Manual states to remove them after any transmission removal & refit. If you have the pin and a large washer still in place, at the transmission mount, that is part of the problem. Remove the pin and washer, and keep them in the toolkit.

 

[jackois]

I've just had the engine out of my 3.8 s-type to change the sump, as it had a crack in it.

I've also had a similar judder to yourself since I bought the car around 9 months ago. First thoughts were much the same as the previous posts, in that the rear oil seal for the engine was leaking on to the clutch while it was stood. To this end I ran the car for six months in the hope that if it was a seal it may take up with use. This didn't help & there was also evidence of clutch slip begiining as well.

Once out, I found that the clutch plate was almost down to the rivets & the thrust bearing was also nearly shot. New clutch now fitted, now judder & the car now goes more like I thought it should when I bought it. A new clutch slave cylinder was also fitted as the adjustment on the old one was not working & there was evidence of leakage from it's seals.

Hope this helps...

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thank you XJ for two ..... I'll check this out...

 

[Jagmaddave]

I think that you may be right Jackois ........ I'm taking the car to my local garage next Monday for them to hopefully confirm where the problem originates and rectify. Unfortunately it's likely to be £££ but I haven't got the facilities really to do it myself. Any idea how much a clutch overhaul is going to cost?

 

[jackois]

The work I had done came in at around £1500, however this included S & C Motors supplying the clutch kit, as the old one was needed out to all the correct kit to be identified. In amongst the work was a replacement sump, various steering bushes, a general service & an MOT. Also there were one or two other parts they identified, such as a clutch cylinder & oil filter bypass hose. Pretty reasonable considering it was an engine out job.

I've had a couple of jobs done by S & C at Netley Marsh in Hampshire & found them most accomodating with very reasonable charges. I have no other connection with them other than as a satisfied customer.

 

[Jagmaddave]

Thank you Jackois ..... I took my car in this morning to be checked out. The figure you gave is a good benchmark to gauge their quote against if it comes to an engine out job.