[silversport]

The 2.2 diesel engine is quite simply no match for the 3.0l ,in terms of performance and refinement. Jaguar, in order to survive had to offer this engine. I have owned six Jaguars over the years and would not buy the 2.2 engined car, yet I only cover around 3-4,000mls per year in the Jag. If I were to cover 20,000mls per year I might reconsider but I would not enjoy the Jaguar experience nearly as much as in my current XF 3.0l S. As for lag, I have not really noticed any in either of my two XFcars ,present model or previous 2.7l. The only time I really experienced serious turbo lag was in a SAAB99 turbo, mind you that was over 30 yrs ago and later 900 models and 9000 models were not as bad, though still suffered.

 

[reddiesel]

I have owned many Jaguars over the years and for me the Breed has several cornerstones. Firstly a petrol engine, Six, Eight or Twelve cylinders,
a leather interior, a minimum of two exhausts and a curve over the rear wheel arches that would shame a Supermodel.
Its an absolute nonsense to expect Jaguar performance and refinement from a 4 pot diesel developed by Ford and Peugeot.

 

[GeoffR]

All this about tax is very interesting but, in my case, irrelevant; mine wasn't a company car and it was chosen based on the supposed performance and following a test drive. It was only after a few months that I discovered the problems, the car it replaced was no lighter but a gentle stroke of the accelerator resulted in instant, equally gentle, acceleration. The Jaguar needed a boot full of throttle to effect any change of speed and always entailed a change down, even at 50 MPH, often followed by an application of brakes because it didn't do subtle. The acceleration from a standstill has already been covered. Yes I should probably have bought a 3L V6 but the figures and test reports suggested otherwise.

I am convinced there was something wrong with the gearbox but the dealer said otherwise and quite simply I considered the car unsafe so it went. Unfortunately, when one is dissatisfied with a car all the niggles become serious problems so I had a list of gripes. Some of them were probably my perception but others, such as the brake wear rate were real. The car before the XF was just as heavy but the brakes lasted three times as long for instance.

Jaguar will really have to lift their game to attract this former owner back.

 

[jberks]

It does happen. Most cars are fine then you get one that for no logical reason has problems or simply doesn't drive as well.
I hear a lot about brake wear on XFs but mine had the rear brakes done when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago (front history Unknown). It's done 22k, mostly stop/start and enthusiastic driving miles since and all 4 brakes have plenty of life left in them.

 

[hackjo]

I have 2 2.2 XF's. I used to have a 2.7d S-Type.

The 2.7 drove very similarly to the 2.2, albeit with more low speed smoothness and a nicer engine note overall. It was hideously unreliable with DPF and EGR issues, but that's another story.

The 2.2 is a very good engine and can be surprisingly smooth and powerful. Under certain circumstances, it sounds quite nice in a rorty diesely kind of style. It is considerably more refined than many lower end diesels from BMW or Audi. Acceleration is very good indeed.

Where it falls down is low speed refinement. You do get a little vibration (not dramatic, but it's there) and the noise is typically four cylinder, so not as nice as one might like. There is some lag but to be honest, I've experienced the exact same thing on my old 2.7 and also on a couple of 3.0 XF's I've driven. You learn to drive around it.

Around town, the 2.2 is very good, but doesn't really have that typical Jag smoothness that the 3.0 offers. Above 30mph, it drives like a Jag. On long motorway journeys, you can't tell a difference.

If you are coming from a 3.0 or petrol XF, the 2.2 may well feel crap. But make no mistake, it's a very well judged car. It arguably handles better than it's larger engined siblings. It's extremely economical. It doesn't suffer from the DPF issues the V6's do to anywhere near the same degree. It has surprisingly good and very enjoyable performance. It is extremely refined on the motorway and very smooth on A roads.

I think there people are excessively harsh on the 2.2 on this forum occasionally. Yes, it's a compromise and yes, the 3.0 is the better car but it's by no means rubbish and is a very good Jag in it's own right.

 

[chr1s23]

I don't agree that you should need to "compensate" for anything when driving a Jag! It's supposedly a "premium" car. I've had diesel autos before (even a Diesel Mondeo which I found better!)

Better in what respect? Wind/road noise?

 

[chr1s23]

You wont have to worry when the Diesel scrappage scheme kicks in ?

What diesel scrapidge system? Do you really think that one is on the cards? Doubt it? What about the excise duty that would be lost?

 

[jberks]

No. they won't do that.
Assuming they decide to promote petrol against diesel then they'll use the same approach as usual. They'll increase tax (vat and rfl) on new cars bought after a specified date.
There'll be no effect on existing cars.
In any case, if you look at the capability of modern hybrids, it's quite obvious they'll be pushing 4 pot turbo petrol hybrids in the future. Zero emissions on short runs which make up most trips and account for a disproportionate amount of car emissions. With the turbo and the torque of the motors combined giving outputs even the V8 boys would drool at!

 

[Guest]

No. they won't do that.
Assuming they decide to promote petrol against diesel then they'll use the same approach as usual. They'll increase tax (vat and rfl) on new cars bought after a specified date.
There'll be no effect on existing cars.
In any case, if you look at the capability of modern hybrids, it's quite obvious they'll be pushing 4 pot turbo petrol hybrids in the future. Zero emissions on short runs which make up most trips and account for a disproportionate amount of car emissions. With the turbo and the torque of the motors combined giving outputs even the V8 boys would drool at!

I wouldn't count on the government playing fair over diesel pollution; it has been common knowledge for decades in engineering circles that diesels simply cannot be made even vaguely clean, the carcinogens may be temporarily stored, only to be released later. Now that the government has finally admitted that the whole "clean diesel" myth is just that, I suspect that punitive taxation may be imposed, especially considering that it is now estimated that some 50,000 people in Britain are killed annually as a result of diesel pollution. Clearly much of this is due to lorries, buses, trains, and oil fired power stations, but motorists are seen as an easy target; we will no doubt see.

 

[jberks]

True, a government could do something daft and if corbyn got in, no doubt Jaguar owners would find ourselves in the gulags anyway. But assuming we maintain a relatively sane administration, governments have to tread a narrow path. The backlash if they penalised diesels wholesale would be severe. It would hit the poor hardest and this is politically toxic. They always prefer to influence rather than force whilst being able to say they are doing something. This is why they tend to work on new sales and let it filter down through the used market over several years.

 

[chr1s23]

True, a government could do something daft and if corbyn got in, no doubt Jaguar owners would find ourselves in the gulags anyway. But assuming we maintain a relatively sane administration, governments have to tread a narrow path. The backlash if they penalised diesels wholesale would be severe. It would hit the poor hardest and this is politically toxic. They always prefer to influence rather than force whilst being able to say they are doing something. This is why they tend to work on new sales and let it filter down through the used market over several years.

I haven't heard Mr Corbyn denigrate diesels. Have I missed something?
Sane administration? When was the last time we had one of those?
I don't do politics - it's too simplistic for me!

 

[Daniel350]

Having just spent some time in the US it is worrying the level of politicians world wide. In the US a country of 260 million people the 2 candidates are both completely in-electable but the chosen representatives of there party. No sane person would vote for either!!

Unfortunately we are half way there in the UK with Corbyn. We really need a strong opposition to stop the elected party just running amuck knowing they can get away with whatever they like as there is no chance of not being re-elected!

As to the thread though just gone to have a look at a Maserati Ghibli as replacement for the X250 XF as the new one just doesn't feel special enough and I don't want a S anyway which is the only one with a Petrol Engine!

 

[Neilr]

Maserati Ghibli - so how does it compare?

 

[Daniel350]

Haven't had a test drive yet as only went in today to start looking. To sit in feels at least as special to sit in as the X250 and base price is £53k for the petrol which is only a little bit more than the XFS. Rear legroom could be better but as a place to sit feels like a worthy replacement to the XF. Not convinced it is attractive as such but definitely stunning!

Have to find out when I can organise a test drive.

Real downside is nearest dealer is near Heathrow and I am near Gatwick!

 

[Neilr]

It is striking, if not classically beautiful, especially in a brighter colour. Monochrome shades don't seem to work on it so well. We saw them at the IAA (Frankfurt motor show) last year and they certainly felt a bit different and special. The press didn't seem to warm to them but having something different is rather nice.

Gatwick to Heathrow is a bit of a trek, especially for out of the ordinary visits should they prove necesssary.

 

[reddiesel]

Being old enough to remember the original Ghibli I was a little intrigued when the old name was brought back and placed on a sports saloon.
I sat in one in Bill McGraths where he incidentally had the original in convertible form for £530,000 and to be honest it didn't feel that special
though I never drove it. It was in white which was pretty anonymous so I must agree with Neilr regarding colour sensitivity and I also spotted
some Magnetti Marelli electrics which in the past didn't enjoy a great reputation when used on Fiats.
You want the XJR Supersport in that beautiful Red with the black anodised alloys Daniel and why buy new when there is some beautiful used
out there, let someone else take the hit.

 

[jberks]

I haven't heard Mr Corbyn denigrate diesels. Have I missed something

He won't need to. With him in power, cars will only be available to members of politburo.
You and I will be keeping very fit breaking rocks in some gulag.

 

[telferstr]

Surely Jaguar must be getting the drift of this thread and at least start considering what is being said here.
Perceived or otherwise, Jaguar must address the issues raised in this thread, as too many people are expressing their doubts about the quality of some of the materials being used in the new model and the lack of engine choice, re the availability of Petrol and V6 engines for the lower priced models.
Some statement of future intent regarding the UK market would be appreciated by many existing XF owners, and possible prospective XF purchasers as well.
Regards,
Telfer.

 

[reddiesel]

I don't think Jaguar pay much heed,especially when sales of JLR products continue to boom,I see now that the latest
initiative is combining both brands under one roof.
My problem is the dearth of definable Jaguar reference points within the existing range, but that said I am a relatively
old bloke and I and others like me are not where Jaguars volume sales reside.

 

[Daniel350]

I don't think Jaguar pay much heed,especially when sales of JLR products continue to boom,I see now that the latest
initiative is combining both brands under one roof.
My problem is the dearth of definable Jaguar reference points within the existing range, but that said I am a relatively
old bloke and I and others like me are not where Jaguars volume sales reside.

I think that is the crux of it. Jaguar are now going mass market and I am sure making more money doing so. Unfortunately that makes the people who want something different who have been with Jags suddenly dislike the brand!

In the end it's all about money. If they can make more money going away from there normal market why wouldn't they. They are a business after all!