Navigation Software update? (not maps)

3639 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by feef, Jul 10, 2012

feef

Discussion Starter · Jun 13, 2012

Was there ever an update to the navigation software or firmware for the entire entertainment/sat-nav unit? The route calculation algorithms my 2005 x-type uses are abysmal putting so much weight on Motorways that it makes the most bizarre route options even when the speeds are set to try and equalise things. Coming down from Scotch Corner to St Neots, it insisted that I take the M18 for 2 miles before rejoining the A1, and then continue on the M1-A14. Ignoring it and staying on the A1 shortened the route by over an hour and 45 miles compared to what it had calculated.

My little Garmin from the same era is far more efficient at calculating routes.

I'm just wondering if they ever released any firmware or software updates for the sat-nav to try and improve on things. I've tried googling and searching, but my google-fu is weak as I just keep getting references to updating the maps

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Cambo351

· #2 · Jun 13, 2012

Lots of posts on this subject already.

The nav already calculates multiple routes, and you have the option of selecting which one before you start.

I don't remember the exact button, but it's in the top right when it shows you the overall route, before confirming to start.

You can cycle through the various routes, the first one shown isn't always the best one.

Updated firmware comes together with updated maps. If you're stilling running a 2005 disc, then that's half the problem!

feef

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 13, 2012

I have the updated 11/12 disk. I didn't notice the multiple route thing, I'll take a look next time. What I found strange, however, was when driving up to Scotland, I took the A1 despite the SatNav wanting to send me up the M6. There's not a lot in it, but it insisted on me travelling west, across country to the M6 even when it was asking me to turn left off the A1 onto the B road, adding hours onto the journey right up until I got to the A66 when it finally sorted itself out. It just seems to weight motorways far too much.

ElectronShepherd

· #4 · Jun 13, 2012

There's more to it than just the choice of routes. You can select different expected speeds for residential, A roads and motorways, and also choose to minimise time or distance. Depending on how those are set may well influence how much priority is given to motorways compared to other roads.

feef

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 13, 2012 (Edited by Moderator)

That's my point tho. A-roads could realistically have a speed of anything from 40 - 70 and preferring a longer route by motorway over a shorter route by 70mph dual carriage way is silly. Equally, I'd hate to set my A-road speed setting to 70.

Both my garmin and Sygic (on my iPhone) take into account the speeds of the roads rather than a blanket speed for a class of road. The map data is provided by Navteq so I know the actual speed limits for the roads involved is available.

FWIW, with the case of the A1 south journey, where it preferred the M18-M1-A14 detour over just going straight down the A1, I had A-roads speeds set to 65 and Motorways to 70. Even in a 200 mile drive, that 5mph difference wouldn't justify a motorway route which takes over an hour longer. That's what's suggesting to me that the algorithms used unreasonably weight in favour of motorways.

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Fat Boy Slim

· #6 · Jun 13, 2012

I will no doubt be corrected if I am wrong, but I beleive that Navteq are the company to blame for the maps. Unfortunately for me, I had Navteq on my Land Rover and now in the Jaguar.

Like the OP, my "little" Garmin is far superior in routing and display. At £169 for an updated "Official" software upgrade, you can buy a much better Garmin or TomTom with a "for life" map upgrade package.

I use the in built Jag GPS for a general map and the Garmin for detailed work. My favourite way is to plan a route on Google and then transfer it to the Garmin. Again, I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but you cannot do this on the in built Jag GPS, or can you?

feef

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 13, 2012

Fat Boy Slim said:
I will no doubt be corrected if I am wrong, but I beleive that Navteq are the company to blame for the maps. Unfortunately for me, I had Navteq on my Land Rover and now in the Jaguar.

The map data is not to 'blame'. It's how it's being used. Fwiw, Garmin use Navteq data as well, and I've had a poke about the Navteq sample data via their developer program. The information is there e.g. road limits on each individual stretch of road, so the software has the facility to identify a 60mph single carriage way road from a 70mph dual carriage way or a 40 mph restricted bit. It's just that the sat-nav software isn't using that information in calculating it's routes.

It also seems to prioritise getting you back on the original route at all costs, rather than recalculating a new route based on your current location hence it suggesting I take a 2 hr detour across the middle of Yorkshire to the M6 from the A1 rather than continue up to the A66. It WILL calculate a new route, but it seems to be a last resort

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Fat Boy Slim

· #8 · Jun 13, 2012

feef said:
Garmin use Navteq data as well,

Is this a for fact? Not disputing it just asking.

I do not understand how Navteq want £169 for an update on the Jag GPS maps, yet Garmin offer a "for life" and other up grade features for almost peanuts.

I do understand however, (from my days of writing radio coverage prediction programs) that the amount of map data and quality (resolution etc), depends on how much you pay the data company.

Looking at the map data available from the Jag GPS and the Garmin, there appears a lot more on the Garmin. Thats why I just use the Jag GPS as an overview map and let the Garmin (when I am not lost, just trying a different route) do the detailed work.

I also notice that a lot of Jag owners will defend to the death the Jag GPS system but I never met a Landy owner who felt the same way. Is this a class thing or are Landy owners just more honest???? LOL (it was said tounge in cheek before anyone has a hissy fit).

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scm

· #9 · Jun 13, 2012

Fat Boy Slim said:
I do not understand how Navteq want £169 for an update on the Jag GPS maps, yet Garmin offer a "for life" and other up grade features for almost peanuts.

Ever heard of "economies of scale"?

Ian D

· #10 · Jun 13, 2012

The Jag Sat Nav, is just that only made and specified for Jaguar. The Garmin system sells and still is selling Sat Nav systems many more times over what Jaguar sold in their cars between 2001-2009, that is why the DVD's are so much more expensive, limited market with a high mark up to get money back to make the update and time to produce it worth the hassle.

Exactly what scm said above!

ElectronShepherd

· #11 · Jun 13, 2012

Added to which, they are not only recouping development and production costs, but simply capturing the consumer surplus. The only evidence you need that they have the pricing correct is the number of people who think it's high, but pay it ayway.

Fat Boy Slim

· #12 · Jun 14, 2012

As I said, there are some Jag owners who will defend the Jag GPS to the death. Anyone knowing anything about electronics, mapping and computer programming knows that very little effort is put into car media systems/GPS and that there is a much greater and better value variety on the open market. As I said in a previous thread on a similar topic, I have spent a career involved with computer programming, digitization of maps and coverage predictions. We use the same types of maps and companies as GPS software manufacturers and I am aware of what goes into designing and producing the end product. Perhaps that is why I am more critical of it.

The point about DVDs and limited markets is moot as all Jags had to do was to make it possible for the upgrades to be downloaded in the same way as Garmin/TomTom. It is noticeable that the majority of after market GPS/entertainment systems all offer micro card inputs and upgrades. The Jag GPS is what is called a VAS (Value added service). This is a means by which car manufacturers/dealers make huge profits from selling add on’s that can be obtained cheaper and at a better quality from 3rd party sources. They also ensure a steady income stream down line which they include in their business plans.

I love Jaguars and would choose a JAG over any other car, but that does not prevent me from commenting honestly on what they put in their cars. From brakes to re maps there is hardly a part/system on the Jag that cannot be obtained cheaper and at a better standard. This forum is littered with posts from Jag enthusiasts and owners improving their cars at a lower costs which is all to our benefit. Such threads/posts should be encouraged.

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motco

· #13 · Jun 14, 2012

I had cause to drive from SW17 (Tooting) to home near J2 of the M40 the other evening. The Jaguar satnav took me east to Trinity Road and up to Wandsworth Bridge - fair enough as TomTom does the same. But bizarrely it then took me back across the river over Putney Bridge only to dump me in Barnes and over Hammersmith Bridge to the A4 at Hammersmith Flyover. There's a much more direct route to Hammersmith via Fulham Palace Road so why it did this little jig across and back across the Thames is unfathomable. TomTom Rules!

G

· #14 · Jun 14, 2012

Intersting read...

But where is the cheapest place to get 2011/2012 SatNav disc for my 08 X Type?

ElectronShepherd

· #15 · Jun 14, 2012

Ebay. Jaguar navigation - Update your Jaguar sat nav maps. is the official place, but you pay full list price. Steer clear of the "£40" sites you sometimes see - those are always pirate copies, and have been known to brick the SatNav system.

TeeDoubleUDee

· #16 · Jun 18, 2012

I tried the Jag satnav when I first bought the car but gave up on it very quickly and went back to my Tom Tom. OP is right about the algorithms in the routing s/w.

An example of my own: I was coming home from Cambridge towards Ipswich along the A14 (A dual carriagway all the way for those that don't know it) and at two places it wanted me to come off the A14, travel along a couple of minor roads and then rejoin the A14 further along! That plus the inability to add your own POIs like safety cameras etc and the silly prices for map updates was enough.

It's a shame really as I would have preferred to use the built in one, bigger screen, no trailing leads etc but TT wins hands down for me.

feef

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 18, 2012

Fat Boy Slim said:
feef said:

Fwiw, Garmin use Navteq data as well

Click to expand...

Is this a for fact? Not disputing it just asking.

It's a fact.

Garmin | United Kingdom | Maps - nuMaps

The NuMaps are navteq data (the logo is displayed just above the map on that page)

feef

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 10, 2012

I've been doing more digging on this but drawing a blank.
Does anyone know who developed the sat-nav software? navteq provide the map data obviously but who developed the routing software?

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