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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There must be some learned people on here who perhaps may well be able to offer a differing view to mine,on the subject of leaving the E.U. This is what I think and have worked out over this short period, leading up to Brexit.

The Economists are very scared of change. Our Economy in general can not stand a period of major change and as soon as change is announced it is doom and gloom from them to try to keep all "the same". There is a false belief that we are able to continue forever as we are and that there will not be a point in time when change would have to occur naturally. To offer a for instance on this, we can play with Banking as much as we like, button down the hatches! and try to keep things the same, but inevitably we can not stop the way that we use Banks these days. We are all online, we hardly ever need a Bank for most of us. That means, Brexit or no Brexit, Banking will change and we can point the finger at Brexit but that is not going to be the reason why.

Next up is the Trade Deal, whereas we will be sending the E.U. a whole lot of money for our Divorce. This is to keep things "the same", because Companies do not want to pay a levy for goods bought in the E.U. That levy is mainly Import Tax, which has to go back to the original Country and it is a mass of paperwork getting that right. Well, as a Company my firm buys from China as well as the E.U. We pay an Import Tax, it is accepted and worked into the price of things and we move forward Importing and selling in the U.K. If we leave the E.U. without a deal, yes, there will be taxes and costs, but they will not change our trading very much. For instance, you are owning JLR and suddenly there is now a levy on all that you buy from the E.U. You suddenly have to pay more for ZF Gearboxes for example. Overall, this may affect the price of the new Jaguar that you are selling and lets say that £1500 has to be put on the price overnight. Will that change our buying patterns much? I think not. You then benefit, because BMW, Mercedes and VW/Audi all have to pay a levy for their cars to come over to be sold here, as they also do not get a Trade Deal, if they stubbornly want to make a point of us leaving the Club. In the end, you would benefit at JLR, sales may dip abroad for a little while and it is that change that Companies in general are running scared of, but should they? Do we not sell Jaguars to the U.S. and many Countries around the World? Will we really not sell Jaguars in Europe without the E.U? Again, it is Companies who fear change, keeping things the same when there is a little success is safer, but overall I believe that all U.K. Companies will adapt accordingly.

E.U.migrants have to be considered and my take on it is this. There is not any doubt that all current E.U. migrants will be welcome after Brexit and also after Brexit, if we need E.U. workers and offer easy access for them to enter and work in the U.K. do you think that we could not encourage workers over? Especially as those workers would feel much more welcome as we are inviting them over to work rather them coming because they have a right to come and work here. Most people believe that we should look after our own first and it is that attitude that creates an objection to E.U. workers. There are some areas that are highly populated by E.U. migrants now, and that creates an objection. We all know, including most Eastern Europeans that I know, that we can not sustain this level of migration and unless we change, there will be more bitterness and a Nation flooded by E.U. migrants. Eventually all will have to change as there is a limit that the U.K.can tolerate. We already have a massive problem with the NHS and sorry, but throwing money at it will not help, not in the short or long term. It is unsustainable.

For me,I want to see a Government that is right behind this. I don't want to hear about the Remainers any more as we must move forward and do this thing properly with confidence.

What do you all think?
 

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Good points Rich.

Don't you agree that the payments are sweeteners?

They will be phased out.

As for the amounts, nobody can comment and should not.

Rumours are just that.

Companies saying they are leaving unless... Are BSing us. They cannot afford to lose the UK. The subsidiary scam for offshore operation both ways, is legal, remember. Only 10% taxation in Cyprus and Malta, for UK operations post Brexit. At least for Administration HQs. That is a lot of money. No company will ditch that opportunity!

And from the UK they can manage their EU operations.

As the shrewd ones do from the Channel Islands already.

Your company should wake up and make new direct contracts with China asap ready for our emergence from the EU permissions umbrella.

And explore offshore taxation as I've described.

I can be useful to you here in Cyprus ;):)

And our enterprising businessmen and women have already sourced new agreements from China India, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, others. They will renegotiate when new lower taxes are set after Brexit for direct imports and exports.

Wait and see.

The majority of businesses are owned by very sharp foreigners who have already made their plans and will grow here, not shrink.

Only stuck in the mud ignorants have not, and the fat well fed English grocer!

The Pakistani corner shop and market stall owner knows better. Buy as much as possible direct from Pakistan of course!

The analysts benefit by crashing the GB£. They forget that this increases our exports! And we grow as we speak. How good is that!

Let the GBP be misled and grumble about the extra £200 on their holiday cost, Britain prospers in the meantime.

Don't ever forget that, it should be everyone's comfort sweet.

.
 

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Hi All

I was a very firm remainer. I am still a remainer but now I am much closer to the fence than I was.

My main concern regards our rights, as consumers, as citizens and as workers. There are a great many rights that we have that are enshrined in EU Law, that whilst we're committed to bringing across when we leave Europe, there's also the promise that all of these laws when brought across will be reviewed and those that are thought to be restrictive will be watered down or removed entirely. I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing but my worry is that the have nots will end up even further down the ladder than they are already and none of the parties who've been in power in the last 20 years or so have shown a great deal of compassion or effort in improving the lot of the lowest paid people in the country.

The closer we get to Brexit I realise that alot of my previous firm remainer beliefs were down to not wanting things to change, I can wholeheartedly understand now, why people disagree with me and think that we're better off out of Europe (before I just couldn't see it) but I still think we should stay in Europe and use our Economy and some good old fashioned diplomacy to push for change from within. I guess some people might say that we've already tried that. I'm not convinced that we sent our best people to do our talking however.
 

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The point is that Cameron went there more or less cap in hand and they laughed at him. He should have gone in all guns blazing and told them that if they DID NOT give him something concrete then their cosy little aim at making Europe a state run by a few countries, mainly Germany, would fail.

The EU for whatever reason decided to fob him off, and the Brexit result is what that kind of stance rewarded them with. They shouldhave known, us being Brits that we would treat that kind of attitude with disdain.

In the meantime: I don'tthink we owe them anything with regard to a Divorce bill. On the contrary I think they should be paying us for breaching trust.

I think, honestly, that any trade tarriffs will hurt them more than they will hurt us. We can buy from anywhere, if they still want us to be a big "buyer" of what the EU has to offer, then surely they will know that any restrictions they put on us will be mirrored? If they decide to stick a 15% tax on our goods forsale over there, then the much more stuff that they sell us will have the same 15% loading?

As to importing workers, absolutely. If we only ask in who we need, then that will secure the future against the so called massive burden on our services that the EU pensioners will impose on us.

I can see only good coming from us starting the collapse of the EU master plan. We were in a similar position in 1939 when it was "Us against Europe". We didn't do too badly.
 

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Good posts isquish, Lost One.

Faith, people, faith.

Europe needs us, we need parts of them.

I think you don't remember pre EU?

We arrived at ports and airports, got an automatic visa stamp.

In Belgium and Holland people sitting near us sometimes switched to English. They turned to include us and made us feel welcome in their country.

They took us to places for the best (strongest!!) beers, cheapest eating places.

We need to stop our arrogance that makes our people demand instead of ask.

Car companies make right hand drive cars specially for us.

We make left hand drive specially for them.

JCB is in great demand worldwide not only the EU. China, Japan, Israel.

We just need to see that we Will get a good agreement, as long as we don't give in to the sabre rattling and initial demands.

You've seen Junckers mellow from Theresa's dinner meeting, and they both found one of the moles.

The important thing is to understand that Brexit was our first democratic decision in 42 years, and it is Final.

Ex politicians and current politicians who think they can cancel it are traitors and should be removed from government office, any office where they affect the legal system too.

Blair is up for a double hanging in my view.

Vince Cable is a great disappointment.

The rest are cannon fodder including Corbyn.

Let Theresa do her job, she is committed and she is learning and thinking and driving her negotiations team better and improving her confidence and I am happy with her and her alone.

I've kept on saying all of this so I'll stop.

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi All

I was a very firm remainer. I am still a remainer but now I am much closer to the fence than I was.

My main concern regards our rights, as consumers, as citizens and as workers. There are a great many rights that we have that are enshrined in EU Law, that whilst we're committed to bringing across when we leave Europe, there's also the promise that all of these laws when brought across will be reviewed and those that are thought to be restrictive will be watered down or removed entirely. I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing but my worry is that the have nots will end up even further down the ladder than they are already and none of the parties who've been in power in the last 20 years or so have shown a great deal of compassion or effort in improving the lot of the lowest paid people in the country.

The closer we get to Brexit I realise that alot of my previous firm remainer beliefs were down to not wanting things to change, I can wholeheartedly understand now, why people disagree with me and think that we're better off out of Europe (before I just couldn't see it) but I still think we should stay in Europe and use our Economy and some good old fashioned diplomacy to push for change from within. I guess some people might say that we've already tried that. I'm not convinced that we sent our best people to do our talking however.
The truth is isquish is that there are so many rules and regulations that it will take an eternity to review them all. The only way that they could go, is to accept all as ours and then review them one by one, sorting the most important first. There are not enough people that are really looking at this and reviewing their original view, either for leave or remain, so I take my hat off to you for that.

The original idea was to get together and trade forming a strong alliance. The E.U. has now grown into a different animal. There was 9 members when we joined and now 28 member states. The idea was to help others to become strong Countries within the E.U. but all it became is Germany U.K. and France propping all of the others up and offering their people work so that they can earn more than their own Country. The ideals are really good, the reality is just not. The E.U. will grow into a Superpower with a single Army and one man running the whole show. That s not for me.
 

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Nope. Crash out. We do most of our trade with other countries under WTA anyway. I think we should tell them "No Fine". No 2 year transition. We are leaving as discussed. If you want to talk to us about trade, get on with it. But we are leaving on the due date. No more "control" from Brussels. Start building the passport check in stations now.

It's the only way. It's similar to people who stop smoking. If you stop dead, it's over and done. If you keep going back, you have lost.
 

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Lost One you are a prophet, your wish is granted!

Go for that job too, you're in the Stars' graces today! :)

We have a date chaps, March 2019!

And Theresa has reinforced what I've said above for MPs.
 
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