Stupid engineers at JLR

PScott543

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I think the V6 Diesel has a well documented history of failure. Isn't some of it down to diesel getting on the oil leading to seizure and crank failure?There was a long, long thread on Pistonheads where an owner had to really fight to get a new engine for his, quite low miles, example.
 

junglejames

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I think the V6 Diesel has a well documented history of failure. Isn't some of it down to diesel getting on the oil leading to seizure and crank failure?There was a long, long thread on Pistonheads where an owner had to really fight to get a new engine for his, quite low miles, example.
Are you thinking of the DPF problems on certain V6 engines?
The XJ EU 6 post 2015 being a famous one. The DPF is seemingly too far from the engine, making passive regens difficult.
Interrupt an active regen, and it dumps diesel in the sump.
Very annoying, and poor that Jaguar never sorted this. It basically requires you to keep a keen eye on oil levels, and replace your oil frequently.
Anything that can reduce particulate emissions can only be a good thing as well. So Shell premium fuel.
 

RWD3M

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Are you thinking of the DPF problems on certain V6 engines?
The XJ EU 6 post 2015 being a famous one. The DPF is seemingly too far from the engine, making passive regens difficult.
Interrupt an active regen, and it dumps diesel in the sump.
Very annoying, and poor that Jaguar never sorted this. It basically requires you to keep a keen eye on oil levels, and replace your oil frequently.
Anything that can reduce particulate emissions can only be a good thing as well. So Shell premium fuel.
Are all the major brands susceptible to this issue?
 

junglejames

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Are all the major brands susceptible to this issue?
No. Although different brands have their own problems. For example BMW have an engine type famous for failing spectacularly just like these Ingeniums.

The problem I mentioned has now been worked out by JLR, although not necessarily resolved. There was a document doing the rounds which had supposedly been sent to dealers, identifying the cars susceptible to it.
It's only certain V6s. For example the XF wasn't one of them I don't recall.

Believe the problem XJs were from 2015 onwards. Think they possibly had to squeeze in an SCR, and this has meant moving the DPF further from the engine. End result, exhaust gases not warm enough when they reach the DPF.
 

PScott543

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You may well be right James, the effect sounds familiar so the cause could well be as you say. And I think it was an XJ on PH.
You're right saying BMW had the infamous N47 which suffered similarly to the Ingenium, though more frequent oil changes seemed to be a fix for that engine and it was resolved, eventually, with a recall for updating.
 

junglejames

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You may well be right James, the effect sounds familiar so the cause could well be as you say. And I think it was an XJ on PH.
You're right saying BMW had the infamous N47 which suffered similarly to the Ingenium, though more frequent oil changes seemed to be a fix for that engine and it was resolved, eventually, with a recall for updating.
The Ingenium will hopefully be the same. Increased oil changes.
Plus the now upgraded timing belt it seems. Unfortunately if you want to avail yourself of the improved timing belt, it's on your cost, which isn't too good.

Haven't decided whether the XF gets a full massive service including timing belt and gearbox fluid change, followed by more frequent oil changes, or whether it gets swapped for say an XJ V6.
 

Fraser

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The Ingenium engine has a timing chain, not a timing belt. However, therein lies the problem in that timing chains are supposed to last a lot longer than timing belts, so easy access to them is almost never on the engine designer's mind. And the Ingenium's timing chain is buried away at the back of the engine next to the flywheel, so a lot of dismantling is needed to get at it.
When I bought my XE, I looked at the oil change interval, and thought "No way !". 21k miles or 2 yearly is far too long and also I like a car to be inspected every year for potential problems. So I change oil and filter every year. I should say at this point that being retired, and with two sports cars for fun use, plus the wife's workhorse VW New Beetle, the Jaguar doesn't see many miles in the year. So the oil changes are about every 10k miles, the same as my previous 2007 XJ6 3 litre V6 petrol. Now that is a really nice engine !
 

junglejames

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The Ingenium engine has a timing chain, not a timing belt. However, therein lies the problem in that timing chains are supposed to last a lot longer than timing belts, so easy access to them is almost never on the engine designer's mind. And the Ingenium's timing chain is buried away at the back of the engine next to the flywheel, so a lot of dismantling is needed to get at it.
When I bought my XE, I looked at the oil change interval, and thought "No way !". 21k miles or 2 yearly is far too long and also I like a car to be inspected every year for potential problems. So I change oil and filter every year. I should say at this point that being retired, and with two sports cars for fun use, plus the wife's workhorse VW New Beetle, the Jaguar doesn't see many miles in the year. So the oil changes are about every 10k miles, the same as my previous 2007 XJ6 3 litre V6 petrol. Now that is a really nice engine !
Oops sorry. I'd been writing timing chain up until now, then suddenly and inexplicably write timing belt!!

Didn't someone on here state they had been quoted £1500 to replace the chain, that from a dealer?

It is an awful lot of money.
Combine that with a service and transmission fluid change, you'd think I'd be better off putting it towards an upgrade!
 

RWD3M

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Hi James,

That was possibly me although that was at a Jaguar Specialist (Mistermatic in Swansea), though coincedentally, I was in the local Jaguar Dealer the other day picking up parts and spoke to one of the sales staff there on this very subject an she did suggest they may be able to do it cheaper! I'm not holding my breath!

However, Even at £1500, that's less than the cost of two years warrany from Jaguar that appears not to cover this problem anyway!
 

PScott543

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The thing is that on most engines the timing chains last just about as long as anything else, thought they do need to be firstly designed correctly and secondly have appropriate oil changes. Agree with everyone on here, 20k + is too long an interval. I don't have any diesels at the moment but I've always found that the oil in them seems to degrade, or at least discolour, much more quickly than in a petrol engine. I realise that may not be a pointer to its condition; is it?

Slightly off topic, we never hear much about the petrol ingenium but is that reflective of the truth or are they also at risk? If not, why not, what's the difference?
 
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