My intent and sincere hope is that this thread will serve as an informative resource for future prospective 09-12 XF buyers. The (X250) XF market can be odd, and hopefully this thread can address some of the curiosities that one may encounter when looking at used V8 XFs.
First, to get the requisite disclaimer out of the way: At present, there is a general price gap between the original, pre-facelift 09-12 XF models and the post-facelift 13-15 models. 2013 brought a host of updates, including the ZF 8HP70 transmission, new styling, revisions to the timing chain/tensioners, two optional Meridian sound systems (replacing the Bowers & Wilkins unit), and much, much more. For these reasons, the 2013-15 cars tends to command a premium compared to their earlier counterparts of similar mileage and condition. But, some people don't like the facelifted styling (although these seems to be a minority sentiment). Others don't like the Meridian systems as compared with the previous Bowers and Wilkins setup (a subject of seemingly eternal debate). And, some people just don't see the financial justification in buying the post-facelift model. If you find yourself agreeing with any of the preceding sentiments and are looking at an 09-12 XF V8(SC), you're in the right place. The debate of whether or not the post 2013 upgrades are worth the comparative price increase is probably best reserved for another thread.
At some point, every prospective XF (V8) buyer in this camp has to confront the inevitable question: do I go for an 09 4.2, or a later 5.0?
At first, it may not seem like much of a question at all. Why on earth WOULDN'T I go for the later model car with more horsepower with identical, if not better fuel economy? (as well as an updated transmission--ZF 6HP26 vs. ZF 6HP28) Yet, when you search the used market, you will often find 09s (particularly low mileage examples) going for MORE than their 10-12 year model counterparts of similar mileage! I was completely baffled by this trend when I stumbled on to it. But, the more research I did, the more nuance I found to what is a genuinely fascinating debate that is characterized more by "pros" and "cons" than "correctness" or "wrongness."
So, as to the strengths of the 4.2 (specifically compared to the 5.0 V8):
And, of course, the weaknesses:
As for the 5.0 cars, the unique strengths are:
At this point, it's a fairly convincing win then for the 2010-2012 XF V8.... oh... wait, I haven't gotten to the cons yet, have I?
And, this is where the tables begin to turn. The 2010-2012 XF V8 has one main flaw--the engine, and almost everything relating to it.
At this point, many forum anthologies have been written about the inherent problems of the AJ133, especially the 2010-2012 models, nor is this post meant to add to that list. But, to give a bit more specificity, timing chain and chain tensioner problems are the main culprit (with JLR even incurring a lawsuit over this catastrophic oversight). Add to that list the disintegrating water pumps (which, on the AJ133 are best treated as a wear item if you don't want to risk being stranded), subsequent hose cracks/leaks, and hose connector failures, and the cooling system likewise warrants constant supervision.
And, on the list of long-term wear concerns is the carbon buildup caused by the direct injection system. Jaguar released the AJ133 at a time when companies like Toyota, Subaru, et al. were already moving towards a hybrid injection system. After years of predominately German automobile manufacturers lying about the effects of carbon valve buildup (ranging from considerable loss in horsepower and gas mileage, to premature valvetrain wear, to, in the worst instances, engine failure), the manufacturers had been caught pants-down, red handed, and most had to acknowledge the inherent issues of such systems before moving swiftly on to hybird port and direct injection systems. Jaguar DID acknowledge the inherent limitation of the design and did their best to mitigate the problem via a built-in air/oil separator (see attached image). And, to JLR's credit, despite being a generation behind in design, the AJ133 suffers less carbon valve buildup than many of its contemporaries (particularly from the likes of BMW and Audi). Still, without routine cleanings and proper oil selection, this will not only cause excessive premature wear on the valves and valvetrain, but it can also lead to a buildup of pressure which can damage the PCV system, especially the valves (again, see attached image) which are only typically a failure point are higher mileage points if carbon cleaning is neglected. The AJ113 is also picky about oil, and more frequent oil changes are recommended to help curb the constant and unavoidable carbon valve buildup issue. Likewise, if looking at a higher mileage example, one should expect the standard drop in power and gas mileage that is inevitable over time with DI engines, with some attributable variance to the state of the car and how rigorously it has been maintained/cleaned (sometimes as little as 5% or less, sometimes as much as 15-20%).
Of course, IF maintained fastidiously, the AJ133 has proven that it can be an otherwise fairly durable unit. There have been several examples (mostly XJs and RRs) cross the 400k mile mark on their original engine, which is a testament to what the AJ gen 3 is capable of under the right circumstance. Sadly, this is simply not the case for most AJ133 units, and the constant looming threat of the failure of vital engine components weighs heavily on the mind of many 2010-2012 XF V8 owners, particularly given that the price of a new engine from Jaguar can approach the previous value of the car.
TLDR: The 4.2 is more mechanically-durable (if a bit less well put together on the inside) and comprehensively cheaper to maintain. If you're buying a V8 XF to keep for the next 5-10 years or 100K+ miles, a 4.2 is a much safer bet than the 5.0 if you can't afford a later 2013+ model (or, again, if you don't want to deal with the ever-present carbon valve buildup). Even if you intend to do the occasional track day, it may be better to buy a 4.2 and just fit it with aftermarket pads/fluid and the popular aftermarket Quaife diff (which, on track, would actually be superior on track to Jaguar's electronic differential, which, while fun, is good for little more than billowing clouds of tire smoke).
If you're keeping/leasing the car for a brief time and don't mind the added risk, the 5.0 is probably preferable since they are approx. the same cost. And, the AJ133 is an absolute hoot and a proper monster with a pulley and a tune. Just be aware of what you're getting yourself into as well as the warning signs. Many owners on here HAVE had great experiences with their 5.0s, but even some of the most attentively-maintained cars have bit the dust, and that's just an inevitable part of the gamble with early AJ133s.
Please correct any factual mistakes you can find, as this post as intended to be a resource to XF (X250) V8 prospective buyers. Similarly, please update the thread with any other well-known issues unique to the 09-12 XF, as well as the AJ33, AJ34S, and AJ133 engines, and ZF 6HP26/28 transmissions, respectively. Feel free to share your own experiences! Did you buy a 5.0 and wish you bought a 4.2? Did you buy a 4.2 and wish you took the gamble with the 5.0? Post a reply!
First, to get the requisite disclaimer out of the way: At present, there is a general price gap between the original, pre-facelift 09-12 XF models and the post-facelift 13-15 models. 2013 brought a host of updates, including the ZF 8HP70 transmission, new styling, revisions to the timing chain/tensioners, two optional Meridian sound systems (replacing the Bowers & Wilkins unit), and much, much more. For these reasons, the 2013-15 cars tends to command a premium compared to their earlier counterparts of similar mileage and condition. But, some people don't like the facelifted styling (although these seems to be a minority sentiment). Others don't like the Meridian systems as compared with the previous Bowers and Wilkins setup (a subject of seemingly eternal debate). And, some people just don't see the financial justification in buying the post-facelift model. If you find yourself agreeing with any of the preceding sentiments and are looking at an 09-12 XF V8(SC), you're in the right place. The debate of whether or not the post 2013 upgrades are worth the comparative price increase is probably best reserved for another thread.
At some point, every prospective XF (V8) buyer in this camp has to confront the inevitable question: do I go for an 09 4.2, or a later 5.0?
At first, it may not seem like much of a question at all. Why on earth WOULDN'T I go for the later model car with more horsepower with identical, if not better fuel economy? (as well as an updated transmission--ZF 6HP26 vs. ZF 6HP28) Yet, when you search the used market, you will often find 09s (particularly low mileage examples) going for MORE than their 10-12 year model counterparts of similar mileage! I was completely baffled by this trend when I stumbled on to it. But, the more research I did, the more nuance I found to what is a genuinely fascinating debate that is characterized more by "pros" and "cons" than "correctness" or "wrongness."
So, as to the strengths of the 4.2 (specifically compared to the 5.0 V8):
- The engine (AJ33/34S)
And, of course, the weaknesses:
- Dash leather shrinking/bubbling
- General first year build-quality issues
- The weak factory differential
- Lack of "R" variant
As for the 5.0 cars, the unique strengths are:
- The power and tunability of the AJ133 V8
- Generally improved build quality
- XFR available (for those who want it). Many people are attracted to the X250 XF specifically because of the XFR. Even though most of the upgrades are more aesthetically-minded than performance-minded, the lack of XFR offering for pre-2010 year models will be enough to sway some.
At this point, it's a fairly convincing win then for the 2010-2012 XF V8.... oh... wait, I haven't gotten to the cons yet, have I?
And, this is where the tables begin to turn. The 2010-2012 XF V8 has one main flaw--the engine, and almost everything relating to it.
At this point, many forum anthologies have been written about the inherent problems of the AJ133, especially the 2010-2012 models, nor is this post meant to add to that list. But, to give a bit more specificity, timing chain and chain tensioner problems are the main culprit (with JLR even incurring a lawsuit over this catastrophic oversight). Add to that list the disintegrating water pumps (which, on the AJ133 are best treated as a wear item if you don't want to risk being stranded), subsequent hose cracks/leaks, and hose connector failures, and the cooling system likewise warrants constant supervision.
And, on the list of long-term wear concerns is the carbon buildup caused by the direct injection system. Jaguar released the AJ133 at a time when companies like Toyota, Subaru, et al. were already moving towards a hybrid injection system. After years of predominately German automobile manufacturers lying about the effects of carbon valve buildup (ranging from considerable loss in horsepower and gas mileage, to premature valvetrain wear, to, in the worst instances, engine failure), the manufacturers had been caught pants-down, red handed, and most had to acknowledge the inherent issues of such systems before moving swiftly on to hybird port and direct injection systems. Jaguar DID acknowledge the inherent limitation of the design and did their best to mitigate the problem via a built-in air/oil separator (see attached image). And, to JLR's credit, despite being a generation behind in design, the AJ133 suffers less carbon valve buildup than many of its contemporaries (particularly from the likes of BMW and Audi). Still, without routine cleanings and proper oil selection, this will not only cause excessive premature wear on the valves and valvetrain, but it can also lead to a buildup of pressure which can damage the PCV system, especially the valves (again, see attached image) which are only typically a failure point are higher mileage points if carbon cleaning is neglected. The AJ113 is also picky about oil, and more frequent oil changes are recommended to help curb the constant and unavoidable carbon valve buildup issue. Likewise, if looking at a higher mileage example, one should expect the standard drop in power and gas mileage that is inevitable over time with DI engines, with some attributable variance to the state of the car and how rigorously it has been maintained/cleaned (sometimes as little as 5% or less, sometimes as much as 15-20%).
Of course, IF maintained fastidiously, the AJ133 has proven that it can be an otherwise fairly durable unit. There have been several examples (mostly XJs and RRs) cross the 400k mile mark on their original engine, which is a testament to what the AJ gen 3 is capable of under the right circumstance. Sadly, this is simply not the case for most AJ133 units, and the constant looming threat of the failure of vital engine components weighs heavily on the mind of many 2010-2012 XF V8 owners, particularly given that the price of a new engine from Jaguar can approach the previous value of the car.
TLDR: The 4.2 is more mechanically-durable (if a bit less well put together on the inside) and comprehensively cheaper to maintain. If you're buying a V8 XF to keep for the next 5-10 years or 100K+ miles, a 4.2 is a much safer bet than the 5.0 if you can't afford a later 2013+ model (or, again, if you don't want to deal with the ever-present carbon valve buildup). Even if you intend to do the occasional track day, it may be better to buy a 4.2 and just fit it with aftermarket pads/fluid and the popular aftermarket Quaife diff (which, on track, would actually be superior on track to Jaguar's electronic differential, which, while fun, is good for little more than billowing clouds of tire smoke).
If you're keeping/leasing the car for a brief time and don't mind the added risk, the 5.0 is probably preferable since they are approx. the same cost. And, the AJ133 is an absolute hoot and a proper monster with a pulley and a tune. Just be aware of what you're getting yourself into as well as the warning signs. Many owners on here HAVE had great experiences with their 5.0s, but even some of the most attentively-maintained cars have bit the dust, and that's just an inevitable part of the gamble with early AJ133s.
Please correct any factual mistakes you can find, as this post as intended to be a resource to XF (X250) V8 prospective buyers. Similarly, please update the thread with any other well-known issues unique to the 09-12 XF, as well as the AJ33, AJ34S, and AJ133 engines, and ZF 6HP26/28 transmissions, respectively. Feel free to share your own experiences! Did you buy a 5.0 and wish you bought a 4.2? Did you buy a 4.2 and wish you took the gamble with the 5.0? Post a reply!
