Jaguar Forum banner
1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Premium Member
Jaguar XJ X351 Portfolio 3.0 V6 D Caviar
Joined
·
3,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I came across this yesterday and got quite ruffled, thinking to myself now that's a shame and a major blow for backing the UK as well as of course a loss for business for Jaguar/Land Rover, but as I find with these sorts of things, there is very little that can be done about it and in this case the 'Met' is a law unto themselves ...

Anger as new PM is 'set to lose their British-made Jaguar in favour of a German Audi' | Daily Mail Online


Gesture Font Symbol Rectangle Art
Font Rectangle Electric blue Number Brand


Font Circle Number Event


"Number 10 today insisted the Prime Minister would always 'promote and champion British companies' - despite the revelation that senior ministers could lose their UK-made Jaguars in favour of German Audis.

Both Boris Johnson and top Cabinet ministers currently have use of a fleet of Jaguar XJs and Range Rovers to transport them on Government business.

But it has now emerged that some of their vehicles might be replaced by Audi A8s after Jaguar paused production of its XJ model following a drop in demand due to the Covid pandemic.

According to The Sun, the Metropolitan Police - who are responsible for the protection of Government ministers - will switch from armoured Jaguar XJs to bulletproof Audi A8s from next year.

The newspaper reported that ministers are furious about move and the message it sends to British manufacturers. One Cabinet member was even said to have blamed 'anti-Brexit bureaucrats' for the decision.

Downing Street today insisted the choice of ministerial cars was 'a matter for the Met Police' when asked about the possibility of Mr Johnson's successor - whether Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak - being chauffeured in a German rather than a British-made vehicle.

A Number 10 spokeswoman said: 'When it comes to certain ministerial cars, it is matter for the Met Police who obviously also take in wider security considerations.'

They added that the PM 'will always promote and champion British companies'.

The Met Police declined to comment.

Labour's John Spellar - the MP for Warley, which is near to Jaguar's traditional Birmingham base - called for Home Secretary Priti Patel or London mayor Sadiq Khan to 'get a grip' on Scotland Yard.

He posted on Twitter: 'Patrol cars from BMW, vans from Mercedes, now PM in an Audi, the Met have got form in backing GERMAN auto industry.

'But this is really over the top, will Home Sec or indeed the Mayor get a grip.' "

Car Vehicle Land vehicle Vehicle registration plate Tire
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Land vehicle
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: JimC64

·
Registered
2020 Seat Ateca 2.0T FR 4Drive
Joined
·
675 Posts
To be fair it will be down to a procurement team in the Met looking at Total Cost of Ownership rather than anything else, thats why we ended up with BMWs rather than Vauxhalls at one point back in the early 2000s. Or at least thats what we were told.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
667 Posts
Personally I would rather they spent MORE to support British industry, regardless of "total cost of ownership", they should be instructed to factor in employment creation in the UK and the fact that a £ earned in a local industry is spent several times in that area.........and there will be a tax take at each stage.

Same with our military, anything that the buy should be sourced in the UK regardless if better or cheaper can be bought elsewhere.
 

·
Registered
XJ X351 Portfolio
Joined
·
669 Posts
Problem here though is what new British limousine/saloon do they have to choose from? Bentley - German. Rolls Royce - German.
But on the other hand, why can't they carry on using the Range Rovers until the new Jaguar XJ sees the light of day?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,237 Posts
Am I allowed to post this information here, or will the flames of damnation consume my body and I will become a pile of ashes prematurely?

I reproduce this unashamedly from the internet.

Jaguar Land Rover has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Motors, in which Tata Sons is the largest shareholder, since 2008. Two brands. Two distinct personalities. Both connected by the elements of quality and sustainability that underpin Jaguar Land Rover's future of modern luxury by design.

Tata Motors Limited is an Indian multinational automotive manufacturing company, headquartered in Mumbai, India, which is part of the Tata Group. The company produces passenger cars, trucks, vans, coaches, buses, luxury cars, sports cars, construction equipment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,812 Posts
The company produces passenger cars, trucks, vans, coaches, buses, luxury cars, sports cars, construction equipment.
And Tuk Tuks.:ROFLMAO:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: taffyhornblower

·
Registered
XJ X351 Portfolio
Joined
·
669 Posts
Am I allowed to post this information here, or will the flames of damnation consume my body and I will become a pile of ashes prematurely?

I reproduce this unashamedly from the internet.

Jaguar Land Rover has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Motors, in which Tata Sons is the largest shareholder, since 2008. Two brands. Two distinct personalities. Both connected by the elements of quality and sustainability that underpin Jaguar Land Rover's future of modern luxury by design.

Tata Motors Limited is an Indian multinational automotive manufacturing company, headquartered in Mumbai, India, which is part of the Tata Group. The company produces passenger cars, trucks, vans, coaches, buses, luxury cars, sports cars, construction equipment.

This is very true.
Perhaps the difference between the JLR ownership example and that of Bentley (VAG) and Rolls Royce (BMW) is the technical and component input. As far as I know, JLR vehicles are still essentially British designed and built with no input from any 3rd-party vehicle manufacturer. Whereas both Bentley and RR have become the luxury arm of the two German manufacturers with a large input from them both in terms of technology and components.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,237 Posts
And Tuk Tuks.:ROFLMAO:
My good lady was conveyed in these back and fro in the Indian city of Cochin, a few years back, when attending courses in Indian cousin; scary, cosy and efficient/economical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
But it has now emerged that some of their vehicles might be replaced by Audi A8s after Jaguar paused production of its XJ model following a drop in demand due to the Covid pandemic.


Production of the XJ wasn't 'paused' due to Covid, they ceased production in 2019 (due to no demand for large executive saloons)

Typical accurate press reporting !

But on the other hand, why can't they carry on using the Range Rovers until the new Jaguar XJ sees the light of day?

Unfortunately, there is no new Jaguar XJ to see the light of day, the all electric replacement for the X351 was cancelled 18 months ago.
 

·
Premium Member
Jaguar XJ X351 Portfolio 3.0 V6 D Caviar
Joined
·
3,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To be fair it will be down to a procurement team in the Met looking at Total Cost of Ownership rather than anything else, thats why we ended up with BMWs rather than Vauxhalls at one point back in the early 2000s. Or at least thats what we were told.
I can understand where you are coming from and like similar financial situations targets have to be met and priorities made to keep within budget if possible - for me it still galls though in going outside the UK to supply vehicles for our police force and/or MPs.

Personally I would rather they spent MORE to support British industry, regardless of "total cost of ownership", they should be instructed to factor in employment creation in the UK and the fact that a £ earned in a local industry is spent several times in that area.........and there will be a tax take at each stage.
I am certainly in favour of supporting British/UK industry and am not happy about buying elsewhere when 'we' have a perfectly good product ourselves - good points made there re employment, recycling of money and taxes.

Problem here though is what new British limousine/saloon do they have to choose from? Bentley - German. Rolls Royce - German.
But on the other hand, why can't they carry on using the Range Rovers until the new Jaguar XJ sees the light of day?
I agree to some extent, but Bentleys and RR are more I would say for royalty rather than MPs and the former are made in Crewe and the latter in Goodwood requiring a 'British' workforce, and even JLR are owned by Tata/India but there are assembly plants in the UK.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimC64

·
Premium Member
Jaguar XJ X351 Portfolio 3.0 V6 D Caviar
Joined
·
3,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
But it has now emerged that some of their vehicles might be replaced by Audi A8s after Jaguar paused production of its XJ model following a drop in demand due to the Covid pandemic.


Production of the XJ wasn't 'paused' due to Covid, they ceased production in 2019 (due to no demand for large executive saloons)

Typical accurate press reporting !
And yet they are still being churned at and at some cost too - did you see the post put up by JimC64 on the 200K Maybach?


Tire Wheel Automotive parking light Vehicle Car


But on the other hand, why can't they carry on using the Range Rovers until the new Jaguar XJ sees the light of day?

Unfortunately, there is no new Jaguar XJ to see the light of day, the all electric replacement for the X351 was cancelled 18 months ago.
This is true, but some XJ die-hards can but dream ... not old Ruby though as me no likey lecy motors
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
In today's world I wonder how much of this idea is politically motivated.
May 2010, Tories take power with David Cameron becoming PM. He resigns after losing the Brexit vote and Teresa May takes over as PM on 13 July 2016, before being forced to resign on 24 July 2019 over inability to get Brexit done.
The same day the Queen invites Boris Johnson to form a government. Boris calls December election and Tories achieve a massive majority. His leadership sees Brexit done, Covid action taken, the sleaze of Partygate and NHS workers numbers drop. Police numbers continue to fall and the Tory relationship with the Police is also under pressure as police investigate and issue fines over lockdown breaches by the PM and others. The Labour Party with help of media had gone on the attack to remove the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cresida ****. It proved to be a popular move and she resigns on 10 February 2022 after Labour's London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, makes her position untenable. There was little outcry from any quarter and promotions through the ranks always follow with changes the top.
When Labour Leader Kier Starmer and Angela Rayner were later investigated by the Police for attending a party during a Northern local election campaign, the Labour Party issued a denial that this was a party and that Rayner had not been present. A day or two later the denial that Rayner attended, was reversed with the Labour Party claiming the original denial had been a clerical error and they were sorry. The Police announced no evidence of wrong doing was found and no further action was needed. This further weakened the already desperate situation the Tory PM was facing.
8 July 2022, Boris Johnson is forced to step down by his own party and announces a leadership contest would start and be decided by September.
5 Septemeber Liz Truss becomes new leader of the Tory Party and assumed office as PM on the 6 September.
Now this is just my personal thoughts on the subject but today nothing is ever straight or simple where politics is concerned.
After 13 years of Tory government could it be that undermining the Tory government and its new PM's intentions to support the workers and UK industry for all things British, will continue apace. For I can think of nothing more obnoxious than seeing UK Ministers and the PM being ferried around in German cars, and I personally find it hard to believe that the Police do not realise that the people of the UK will see this as a first betrayal of the new Tory PM.
 

·
Premium Member
Jaguar XJ X351 Portfolio 3.0 V6 D Caviar
Joined
·
3,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
In today's world I wonder how much of this idea is politically motivated.
May 2010, Tories take power with David Cameron becoming PM. He resigns after losing the Brexit vote and Teresa May takes over as PM on 13 July 2016, before being forced to resign on 24 July 2019 over inability to get Brexit done.
The same day the Queen invites Boris Johnson to form a government. Boris calls December election and Tories achieve a massive majority. His leadership sees Brexit done, Covid action taken, the sleaze of Partygate and NHS workers numbers drop. Police numbers continue to fall and the Tory relationship with the Police is also under pressure as police investigate and issue fines over lockdown breaches by the PM and others. The Labour Party with help of media had gone on the attack to remove the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cresida ****. It proved to be a popular move and she resigns on 10 February 2022 after Labour's London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, makes her position untenable. There was little outcry from any quarter and promotions through the ranks always follow with changes the top.
When Labour Leader Kier Starmer and Angela Rayner were later investigated by the Police for attending a party during a Northern local election campaign, the Labour Party issued a denial that this was a party and that Rayner had not been present. A day or two later the denial that Rayner attended, was reversed with the Labour Party claiming the original denial had been a clerical error and they were sorry. The Police announced no evidence of wrong doing was found and no further action was needed. This further weakened the already desperate situation the Tory PM was facing.
8 July 2022, Boris Johnson is forced to step down by his own party and announces a leadership contest would start and be decided by September.
5 Septemeber Liz Truss becomes new leader of the Tory Party and assumed office as PM on the 6 September.
Now this is just my personal thoughts on the subject but today nothing is ever straight or simple where politics is concerned.
After 13 years of Tory government could it be that undermining the Tory government and its new PM's intentions to support the workers and UK industry for all things British, will continue apace. For I can think of nothing more obnoxious than seeing UK Ministers and the PM being ferried around in German cars, and I personally find it hard to believe that the Police do not realise that the people of the UK will see this as a first betrayal of the new Tory PM.
An interesting summation you have put up there RayUK and if we take onboard what RatPC has said about funding i.e. "To be fair it will be down to a procurement team in the Met looking at Total Cost of Ownership rather than anything else", I'm inclined to think the moving away from JLR is not so much about politics but about money, but that doesn't make it right, well not in my estimation anyway.

"After 13 years of Tory government could it be that undermining the Tory government and its new PM's intentions to support the workers and UK industry for all things British, will continue apace. For I can think of nothing more obnoxious than seeing UK Ministers and the PM being ferried around in German cars, and I personally find it hard to believe that the Police do not realise that the people of the UK will see this as a first betrayal of the new Tory PM."

However, having said that and looking at the highlighted part of you post (as above) you say a lot in a couple of sentences, and you have certainly made me think again: looking at things in a more sceptical light you do seem to have a point.

I do find it hard to believe that the police have some sort of grievance against the Tory government for 13 years and continue to do so in attempting to undermine it as you seem to infer.

I do however agree that the police are probably fully aware of how the people of the UK will see and feel passionately about the driving around of MPs and PM in German cars as being anti-British, although I think it a little premature as "a first betrayal of the new Tory PM" as it is not planned to happen until next year. But in my opinion, I don't think that the said police really 'care' about the views of the UK public, as I said before, I think they care about the financial aspect and keeping within budget.

The other thing for me is in this situation, I believe that generally speaking most of the UK people will think that the PM and MPs choose the cars they are in and not the police, so it is the former that will be viewed in a negative light and anti-British, rather than the latter, which goes back to your 'undermining the government argument' I suppose .... hmmmm full circle me thinks :unsure:
 
  • Like
Reactions: rayUK

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
The make and brand of vehicle used to convey the PM and Cabinet Ministers around the streets of London is an important flag that proclaims the superiority of British industry. Making it the choice of beancounters is shortsighted in the extreme. I find the conveyance of the coffin of the Queen in a Mercedes Benz hearse instead of a Rolls Royce or Jaguar hearse offensive. Sorry, just MHO.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,812 Posts
I find the conveyance of the coffin of the Queen in a Mercedes Benz hearse instead of a Rolls Royce or Jaguar hearse offensive
Why. When was Rolls Royce cars last owned by the British and Jaguar is now owned by an Indian. Let’s not forget also, the Queen did have German relatives as did most of the past royals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
its nothing to do with German Relatives but Cars manufactured by British workers who also pay the income tax that buys these fleet vehicles. No tax payer money should leave this Country when an alternative is available.
There you have it! besides, regardless of who the shareholders are, Rolls Royce and Jaguar are synonymous with British craftsmanship.
 

·
Premium Member
Jaguar XJ X351 Portfolio 3.0 V6 D Caviar
Joined
·
3,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I find the conveyance of the coffin of the Queen in a Mercedes Benz hearse instead of a Rolls Royce or Jaguar hearse offensive.
I would add 'or Bentley' to your list and I have to agree with your sentiments as I too found the use of a Mercedes Benz hearse inappropriate, irksome and offensive.

At least Princess Anne followed in the Bentley State Limousine, and then the LR Range Rovers.
 

·
Registered
Jaguar S-Type R, registered Dec 2005
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
I think the general public™ would be a bit miffed if cabinet ministers were swanning around in Rollers. The biggest question is why the current cars can't just be given a thorough overhall and continue their service. I'm sure it would be cheaper than buying some new armoured Audis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
667 Posts
I think the general public™ would be a bit miffed if cabinet ministers were swanning around in Rollers. The biggest question is why the current cars can't just be given a thorough overhall and continue their service. I'm sure it would be cheaper than buy some new armoured Audis.
That would be a sensible measure, also promotes making things last and moves away from the current throw away culture................As a family, we buy new on offer or demonstrators and keep them until the wheels fall off.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top