Yes, for sure if you have the wrong egr valve it will cause you problems.
The other thing I would do is change the fuel filter for a genuine Jaguar one as mine has poor cold start symptoms when the filter is due for a change.

 

Thanks Billy. I don't think I have the wrong valve, as this is the one that was on the car before and there is not the extra electric connections needed for fitting the other fully electric valve (the one with DPFE). As I understood, in Germany they retrofitted a DPF on all Diesel X-Types but did leave the EGR as if there was no DPF, thus the one I have.
I did replace the diesel filter recently (not a genuine one though), and it didn't help. But I can replace it again

Another thing I was wondering is if it could be that the EGR opens too quickly. Since the engines stops a few seconds after startup, couldn't it be that cold exhaust gas are re-entering the admission and causing the engine to stop? At the same time, the stop is so abrupt that it looks as if it was an electronic shut down...

 

It could be an air leak somewhere. The problem with this kind of issue is that no two cars with the same symptoms can have the same cause.
If you can collect some live data off the ecu, this may help in narrowing down the problem though.

 

I see that my original post does not generate a lot of enthusiasm. I may have been too elusive and have added confusing information. Let me be a bit more specific and reformulate some questions more specifically.
The problems:
- Engine stops abruptly around 5 seconds after start-up, but only when it is cold temperature outside. Engine takes longer to restart the second time, but other than that engine runs fine, lots of power, not much black smoke.
- MIL is on, with codes P0401, P0403, P0405, all related to the EGR system apparently.
My questions:
- All codes seem to refer to the EGR system, but with several components potentially involved. So what is the EGR system made of? There is the EGR valve, a solenoid (I don't know what that is, neither what it does), and maybe a DPFE (not completely clear what it does either, neither if I even have one on my 2006 2.2D because there is apparently an EGR valve model with a DPFE included and mine is not that model of valve). Anything else? Could you explain how they interact with each other (or give a link where I could read about this).
- How can I test which of these components is faulty? The EGR valve itself was bought new in February, so for sure it shouldn't be because it is clogged. I read on other forums about testing the voltage of some components, but this was not specific to the X-Type, any help on this would be appreciated.
- Billy, you mention collecting data off the ECU, which ones specifically? I guess this would have to be collected with an OBD reader.

Thanks!

 

Yes exactly. Something like the iCarsoft or SDD on a laptop.

 

ok, but which data would be helpful to collect?

 

Electrical signals to and from MAF, MAP and EGR. Fuel pressure, injector pulse etc.

 

I make very slow progress because I still struggle to understand how the egr system actually works. I am reading here and there about it and tested a few first things today. Engine cold and at idle, the vacuum indicates around 11 in/Hg. I read somewhere it should be around 17-22 in/Hg, and if lower it would indicate a vacuum leak. But a vacuum leak, should mean that the egr valve is not tight, right? Thus in that case, I read somewhere else that the air intake temperature should start increasing rapidly after a cold start, because there are exhaust gas going into the inlet manifold when it should not. And in my case, letting the engine run for 5 min leads to an increase of the inlet air temperature by only 2°C. Furthermore, the P0401 codes stands for too little egr flow and not too much. Does that make any sense what I am saying?
I am using the Torque (Lite) software together with the Mini EML327 reader.

 

The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) is part of the emission control system. When fuel is burnt not all the fuel is burnt efficiently and the valve directs the exhaust back through the inlet manifold to burn again. The codes that you show are more to do with the Connector to the valve and not necessary the valve itself.
Your vehicle should have the 5 pin plug which is the fully electronic valve. Check also the security of the vacuum hose to the EGR make sure it is not kinked as flow would be hindered creating a low flow.
The DPF filter is in the exhaust and removes particulates and requires regenerating at certain times. Vehicles fitted with this filter have a warning light to tell you that regeneration is required. If regeneration is not completed then the filter will get blocked and the vehicle will become immobilized, will not run and a new filter will have to be fitted to solve the problem. This is only a brief explanation but I hope it helps you to understand the system.

Roger


Roger

 

Hi there, have you blanked EGR valve to see if that makes any difference on start up. Only asking as, if EGR valve is sticking for some reason when you shut off and it stays in that position then the feedback to the engine control unit (ECU) will be wrong on start up and then the ECU will send the wrong signals to all types of sensors. The sensors usually work from 0 to 5 volts and the egr is no different. Imagine valve stuck in the middle, the signal sent to ECU will be 2.5 volts on start up which is obviously wrong as it should be either zero or 5 volts on start up depending on how the system works. I would imagine it would be zero volts on start up and vary to 5 volts depending on what the ECU asks the EGR valve to do. cheers Barry

 

"Vehicles fitted with this filter have a warning light to tell you that regeneration is required"
Roger, what does this warning light look like?

Barry, yes I did try to blank it a while ago and as far as I can remember, it didn't help. Also the codes I have stands for too little EGR flow. If it was stuck open, I guess I'd have too much flow. Also, I am interested in knowing how to test the voltage, to me that seem to be the best way of checking what is working and what is not. I don't know whether I can check this with the OBD reader, or if I have to do it with a multimeter?

Is the EGR supposed to open when you are driving but the engine is still cold? This morning, leaving for work, I noticed using the OBD scanner that the inlet air temperature was increasing when I was accelerating and decreasing when I was decelerating (by about 5°C), and this from the beginning, thus while the temperature gauge didn't start to move yet. I kind of remember having read that the EGR should only operate at constant rpm and when engine is warm. If the increase in temperature is due to the EGR opening while it shouldn't, that might cause the increase in temperature, but why does the ECU reports too little flow then?

 

Hi again, have a look at this link (https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/egr-valve/the-exhaust-gas-recirculation-valve-egr-faq) it explains all about egr. P401 is insufficient flow and P403 is EGR circuit malfunction. P405 code is caused by,The ECM monitoring the EGR position sensor any time the key is on and if the sensor input signal voltage drops below a specified voltage returning to the ECM, then the code is set. Causes include The EGR valve sensor return is internally shorted to ground. The EGR valve sensor return wiring or connection is shorted to ground. The EGR sensor 5 volt reference voltage is open in the sensor or connection is not making contact. I had a problem with my EGR valve which brought on my coil warning light some time ago, so i took it off stripped it down and cleaned it up with egr cleaner and mr muscle oven cleaner. cleaned and checked all the electrical connections inside and then lightly lubricated the motor and valve shaft with 3 in 1 oil and not had a problem since. Also check your egr valve electrical connector is clean and on tight. Really quite easy to do, just a nuts and bolt job. i reckon i could get it off in 10 minutes now. cheers barry

 

I took a day off work today so I could investigate a bit more.
I did spray some contact cleaner on the electric connector of the EGR valve, and also on the MAF sensor. Then I checked for kinks on the EGR cooler-to-valve tube but found none (it is a metallic tube, so it would be hard to kink anyway); and I visually inspected the electric wiring around the valve electric connector and found nothing special.
Next, I took off the valve. It is dirty inside but not excessively (was installed as new last February). I opened the electric compartment of the valve (picture) and operated the wheels without problem, so it doesn't seem it was stuck closed. I also tested the little electric engine by plugging it to the car battery and it works. Thus the EGR valve seems to work...

At that point, I thought about my old EGR valve that I still have. The problem with this one is that the pintle is a bit off, in a way that the valve cannot close completely. Thus it means that if I fit this one back, the problem should be different than the other one where the P0401, 403 and 405 stand for too little flow; with the old one it should be too much (rather than too little) flow. I thus fitted it back on the car, but the engine wouldn't start (I guess because the EGR is open). I then added a blank with a 8mm hole in it, and the engine started. Idle not perfect, but not too bad. I went for a 10-15 km ride and besides a real lack of power below 2000 RPM (like if I had no turbo), the engine worked ok and more importantly no check engine light. There is a pending P0404 though, which according to the Jag repair manual stands for "excessive soot build-up on the EGR valve seat". I don't know whether it will end up turning the check engine light or not, but it would be great if it could stay calm until I have passed the MOT next week...
So what's next? The fact that I don't have the same codes with the 2 EGR valves makes me think the problem is not a faulty sensor, otherwise it should give the same code whichever the valve that is on, right? Thus it should be the valve itself. On the other hand, I dismounted the valve and it is not stuck and the electric engine still seems to work!? Thus I wonder whether it could still be a problem with the electric connector of the EGR valve that would not provide a sufficient voltage to open the valve?? (the old valve is always open and with the 8mm hole in the blank, there is a continuous flow of exhaust gas, thus this might not trigger the P401-403-405 codes?). What do you all think?
I would like to check this valve electric connector, but don't know which wires to focus on, and how to test it? I post here a picture of the connector, there are 5 wires called 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and of different colours. Help please!

 

Sams, I can't offer any suggestions, but I do applaud your thoroughness!

 

Hi again, you wrote "The fact that I don't have the same codes with the 2 EGR valves makes me think the problem is not a faulty sensor, otherwise it should give the same code whichever the valve that is on, right? Thus it should be the valve itself." to me what you say makes perfect sense. I still think that it is the new valve failing in some way. I cant help with the connector and cables sorry. The picture you put up showing the cogs, these cogs can be removed and and valve opened up further to lubricate everything if i remember correctly and underneath are the internal electrical connections which can be cleaned up. They can get quite dirty in there and may be your problem. Sorry but that's about all i can think of. If you do take it further apart take some photos as a memory aid just in case cheers Barry

 

Hi
After having been unable to determine whether my problems really come from the EGR valve itself or the electronics behind, I resigned and shipped the valve back to where I bought it less than a year ago (it is thus still under warranty). They say they would investigate the valve. In the meantime they proposed me to buy another one from their website that would be reimbursed IF the one I shipped back is faulty. Clever from them of course...
Thus I rather chose to fit my old valve, which is stuck open, and I blanked it. Surprisingly, I now get a P0406 code and the car goes into limp mode all the time... Thus I have two questions for you guys:
- P0406 stands for too much flow. How is that possible if the valve is blanked?? There shouldn't be a leak elsewhere because I didn't get P0406 with the other valve (the one I shipped back). I thought there was no position sensor on these electric valves, and that the ECU only senses the flows at different places.
- Do you think it is a problem to drive on limp move for an extended period of time if you know what triggers the limp mode (here it is the P0406 code)?

Thanks!

 

Have a read of this, it may help.
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0406

 

The only thing I can add is the blanking plate you used does it have the 10mm hole required on the Electronic valve.

Roger

 

Yes, it is true that I had tried a plate with a 8mm hole in it before (see above). The engine then lacked power at low rpm, but as far as I can remember, there was no limp mode. Tomorrow, I will then try to fit a plate with a 6mm hole in it to see whether I get a bit more power at low rpm and hope that the limp mode won't turn on.

Otherwise, is there any risk for the engine with continuing to drive on limp mode?

 

im a bit late to the party, and I've scanned over the other posts, ( so i may have missed something)

The EGR would have to be stuck open to kill the engine after 5 seconds, as the EGR shouldn't open for the first couple of minutes of operation, and should always be closed at idle. the EGR only starts to open after 1200RPM.

My EGR is completely knackered, only closes about 80%, when i take my blanking plate off and start the car, its starts easy, but then sputters and dies within a couple of seconds.

the ECU reads the MAF sensor, EGR position, Engine RPM, and Throttle Position to determine how far open the EGR should be.

The P0405 and P0406 are only triggered if the EGR position reports correct, but the MAF sensor doesn't report a drop in airflow, or if you disconnect the cable from the DPF

If i were you, the first thing i would do is fully blank the EGR if the car runs fine after that point, you need to but a new EGR, the cheap ones don't last so make sure its genuine jaguar.

If the problem continues, i would look at the MAF sensor. the best way to check it is to disconnect it and start the car, the engine will run fine with the MAF disconnected, it does throw a code after a while because it detects the MAF isn't there, but if that then solves your problem you know that you need to clean the MAF. obviosuly its not advised to run the engine for a long time with the MAF disconnected.

if neither of those things solve your problem, i would look at the turbo actuator. a stuck actuator causes additional back pressure when the egr is open, which interferes with the airflow reading and throws the p0405 or p0406 code.

if thats not the problem the catalitic convertor could have dislodged, this would increase backpressure which would throw those codes and would be able to choke the engine.

after that...i dunno, lets just hope one of those things solves it.

also i have been running my engine with a full blank for 3 months now, and it doesnt go into limp mode, it throws the EML but no limp.

 

Sorry Sams, yes you did mention the blanking plate in your earlier post. I did not remember that. From the workshop manual:
P0406 Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
sensor A circuit high


EGR valve connector fault
EGR valve stuck open


Check for P0402 if this code is logged suspect an exhaust gas
recirculation (EGR) valve internal fault. Using the manufacturer
approved diagnostic system perform the (Turbo, exhaust gas
recirculation and air path dynamic test) routine. Refer to the
electrical circuit diagrams and check exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
valve sensor circuit - DL1-008 - for short circuit to power

If you had JLR/SDD you could perform this operation.

The one thing that has not been mentioned is the Turbo Actuator arm. Is it free as this could give a similar fault.

Roger

 

Thanks RageMonkey. The engine abruptly stops even with the EGR fully blanked (my current situation), which makes me think that if it is related to the EGR system, it must be an electronic shut off. Maybe because of the error codes stored in the ECU? Or it has nothing to do with the EGR system and as you said may have something to do with the turbo actuator or MAF sensor.
My current situation is a valve that is fully blanked and disconnected (I unplugged the electric connector to the valve), which strangely solved the annoying limp mode. The EML is still on, but that doesn't affect the driving.
As you advised, I shipped back the EGR valve to Britishparts, and I am waiting for their reply. If they replace it (which I hope since it is still under warranty!), it will again be an aftermarket one, but a new one, and I will see whether this solves the kill of the engine when cold outside. If not, then I'll look at the actuator and the MAF sensor.
Thus I will keep it like this (fully blanked and disconnected), until I get a new valve from Britishparts. I will report what happens then.

 

does it stop with the sensor unplugged?

my only other thought as to why it would cure limp mode, would be that the sensor is reporting fully open when its not, this would cause the car to under fuel, and with the cylinders being cold, it struggles to detonate and the engine chokes. but then this wouldnt be the case if it dies unplugged.

did you try unplugging the MAF sensor and starting the car?

 

Hi there, had a read again of this. If it dies with egr plugged in and doesn't with it unplugged, then i would say it has to be the egr or the signal to the ecu from the egr. I would hazard a guess that with the egr unplugged the ecu would use a preset middle of the range signal and that is why your car starts even though you will get a MIL because EGR is unplugged. Just because you blank an EGR, and if it is still electrically conected, the ECU will still, for the want of a better word, talk to the EGR and if it is stuck in a certain position(Broken) then the ECU will react accordingly putting on MIL and go into limp mode. I really think a new EGR will sort it but these cars are a law to themselves. good luck cheers Barry

 

Hi there, had a read again of this. If it dies with egr plugged in and doesn't with it unplugged, then i would say it has to be the egr or the signal to the ecu from the egr. I would hazard a guess that with the egr unplugged the ecu would use a preset middle of the range signal and that is why your car starts even though you will get a MIL because EGR is unplugged. Just because you blank an EGR, and if it is still electrically connected, the ECU will still, for the want of a better word, talk to the EGR and if it is stuck in a certain position(Broken) then the ECU will react accordingly putting on MIL and go into limp mode. I really think a new EGR will sort it but these cars are a law to themselves. good luck cheers Barry

with the EGR unplugged it treats it as if the EGR were closed because the position signal would be 0v. That would keep the fuel air mix correct.

when plugged in if the position sensor was mis-reading, the valve could be shut and the signal say is open or the other way round.